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Author Topic: IC-7300 vs. TS-590SG ? (not S model)  (Read 97219 times)
W5SRT
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Posts: 416




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« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2016, 07:26:10 AM »


That is a relative statement at best in that one unit, the 590, is a full fledged solid and proven base/desktop unit and they other is a bit of a smaller "toy" with whistles and bells to make it seem better than it really is over all.

Your statement is clearly biased (for whatever reason) and flat out wrong.  The 7300 is easily in the same class as the 590s.

Sorry to challenge you, but this is for the record, so I felt I had to do it.

73, Dan
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W8JX
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« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2016, 06:44:54 AM »


That is a relative statement at best in that one unit, the 590, is a full fledged solid and proven base/desktop unit and they other is a bit of a smaller "toy" with whistles and bells to make it seem better than it really is over all.

Your statement is clearly biased (for whatever reason) and flat out wrong.  The 7300 is easily in the same class as the 590s.

Sorry to challenge you, but this is for the record, so I felt I had to do it.

73, Dan

No it is clearly NOT the same class as a 590. While its specs may be similar or close the chassis size, heat dissipation capacity KEY and display size and front panel controls are different. The 590 is a true full sized desktop rig and 7300 is a smaller "toy" of sorts by comparison. To suggest they are fully competitive without factoring in all difference is not accurate at all. Kinda like comparing a tablet to a laptop or a laptop to a desktop in features. Trade offs are made with 7300 vs 590. 
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
K7JQ
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« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2016, 08:04:56 AM »


That is a relative statement at best in that one unit, the 590, is a full fledged solid and proven base/desktop unit and they other is a bit of a smaller "toy" with whistles and bells to make it seem better than it really is over all.

Your statement is clearly biased (for whatever reason) and flat out wrong.  The 7300 is easily in the same class as the 590s.

Sorry to challenge you, but this is for the record, so I felt I had to do it.

73, Dan

No it is clearly NOT the same class as a 590. While its specs may be similar or close the chassis size, heat dissipation capacity KEY and display size and front panel controls are different. The 590 is a true full sized desktop rig and 7300 is a smaller "toy" of sorts by comparison. To suggest they are fully competitive without factoring in all difference is not accurate at all. Kinda like comparing a tablet to a laptop or a laptop to a desktop in features. Trade offs are made with 7300 vs 590. 

You obviously didn't read or ignored my previous post comparing size...they're also similar. Until I see some reviews (and there have been a lot of them) where folks are complaining about heat issues, you're claim is unsubstantiated. Yes, the displays are different. The 7300 has the latest LED screen with a spectrum scope/waterfall display and other important parameters that all the major manufacturers are now using. Elecraft manufactures an outboard pan adapter, while Yaesu and Kenwood have adapted to Icom-type display screens on all their newest offerings. The 7300 display size is fine for all except maybe someone severely vision impaired. I don't know what you mean by "KEY" size is different. Are you referring to the smaller key jack on the front panel? If so, who cares? It does the same thing as a "standard" one, just a space saver.

However, you are correct that the 590 and 7300 are clearly not in the same class. The 7300 is fresher and modern, with the latest displays and SDR technology...IMO, better than the 590. Why do you think Kenwood let the dealers reduce the 590's price to below that of the 7300? Kenwood sees the handwriting on the wall, and hopes to continue 590 sales by reducing the price.

73,  Bob K7JQ
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KF7DS
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« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2016, 09:17:22 AM »

I had a 590SG (amongst others over the years) and now have a 7300. If it is audio quality that you are concerned about, then hands down, the audio on the 7300 is superior.

The SG sounded harsh to my ears, like I find a K3. NR on the SG was mediocre and not in the same league with the 7300. The RX of the SG is very good, as is the RX on the 7300. In fact, i find the audio qualities of the 7300 superior to the Flex 6300 I owned, and that was the best audio I had encountered to date.

Having used both, i would go with the 7300. I did not find adding HSDR to the SG was that great as it eats computer resources, eats screen real estate, and adds a degree of instability to the computer. Just like the Flex, an errant MS update can leave your Radio/kluged panadapter in an unusable condition for a while and you will find yourself spending more time chasing and fixing the issue than you want. That is why I sold the Flex, and the fact that WAN was promised for over a year and got tired of waiting.
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HB9PJT
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« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2016, 12:14:50 PM »

The TS-590 is more robust when very strong signals are present. At large antennas in Europe the ADC of the IC-7300 may be overdriven by radio stations. Or when there is anoter amateur radio transmitting very close. Then there is not anymore much to receice. The blocking of the TS-590 is 14 dB better and the ultimate filter attenuation of the TS-590 is 15 dB better. But the display of the IC-7300 is nicer.

73, Peter - HB9PJT
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W8JX
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« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2016, 04:31:51 AM »

You obviously didn't read or ignored my previous post comparing size...they're also similar. Until I see some reviews (and there have been a lot of them) where folks are complaining about heat issues, you're claim is unsubstantiated. Yes, the displays are different. The 7300 has the latest LED screen with a spectrum scope/waterfall display and other important parameters that all the major manufacturers are now using.

I actually played with a 7300 briefly a few months ago and I was not impressed. It is smaller than and I do not like front panel design.  As far as spectrum analyzer it is little more than eye candy and it does absolutely nothing to improve receivers actual performance. It make a good sales gimmick for marketing though to those that let eye candy heavily influence their purchasing decisions. 
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
K7JQ
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Posts: 951




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« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2016, 06:14:36 AM »

You obviously didn't read or ignored my previous post comparing size...they're also similar. Until I see some reviews (and there have been a lot of them) where folks are complaining about heat issues, you're claim is unsubstantiated. Yes, the displays are different. The 7300 has the latest LED screen with a spectrum scope/waterfall display and other important parameters that all the major manufacturers are now using.

I actually played with a 7300 briefly a few months ago and I was not impressed. It is smaller than and I do not like front panel design.  As far as spectrum analyzer it is little more than eye candy and it does absolutely nothing to improve receivers actual performance. It make a good sales gimmick for marketing though to those that let eye candy heavily influence their purchasing decisions. 

OK...all a matter of opinion. Everyone has their likes and dislikes when it comes to radio design and operating preferences. You term a spectrum analyzer as "eye candy", does nothing for you. I, on the other hand, have been using that "sales gimmick" for the past nine years, find it a very valuable tool in contesting, DXing, and visually checking out band activity. I wouldn't buy a radio without one. Otherwise, you're flying blind. Just my opinion.

As far as a "receiver's actual performance", if Sherwood's numbers are the gospel (as some think they are), the 7300 is two steps ahead of the 590SG, both in rarified air (top 14) with some of the most expensive radios. Not too shabby. But the 7300 is a "toy" compared to the "true full sized desktop" 590??? C'mon, man.

But my point is, unless I have cold, hard, substantiated facts about something, I always preface my comments with "In my opinion" (or "IMO"). That kinda lets me off the hook if someone decides to challenge what I say, as I could be wrong or just have a different viewpoint. These forums are designed to provide useful information, exchange ideas, and friendly banter. Your blanket statement that the 7300 is a "toy" compared to the 590SG just compelled me to challenge that. Had you begun with "IMO", I wouldn't be writing this now. Heck, I'm retired and have nothing better to do this early in the morning. Smiley  Just friendly banter, my friend...enjoy whatever radio you like.

73,  Bob K7JQ 
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VK3TEX
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« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2016, 07:56:48 AM »

I agree with you Bob, K7JQ the scope is definitely NOT eye candy! It's a very useful tool to gauge band activity. I've had an Icom 7700, I own the TS 990 and also the IC 7300 and find the scope is now something I can't live without on a Ham radio.Period.
Save so much time you can see exactly what state the band is in in an instant, and adjust your operating to suit...
I have done much A/B switching and testing and comparing between the TS990 and the 7300 and threre are a LOT of real eye openers here....
1: The scope on the 7300 is not a toy but a serious piece of technology. It may be smaller than the scope on the 990 but it DESTROYS it in every department , from clarity to usefulness to configurations it and optioning it out to your tastes its superior. Kenwood could have done so much better with their scope on the 990 but sadly didn't...
2: The ease of learning how to use the 7300 was fantastic. Didn't even need the manual for 95% of the operations... Took a long week with the manual to learn the 990... But I guess this isn't fair as the 990 is a lot more complex rig with more features...
3: The biggest eye opener was that all things being equal (filters etc) the RX and TX on the 7300 was EQUAL OF THE 990. Yes that's right, they sound just as good as each other. That's no joke.
4: The RF GAIN control on the 7300'is your friend it works fantastic at quieting the noise on the lower bands without sacrificing dynamic range, it has to be seen to be believed...
5: Not had any overheating issues whatsoever with the 7300. The cooling comes on even on RX with the 990 occasionally....
6: I could not test the strong signal handling between the two but would dare say the 990 might be better at this. I don't get 60db over s9 signals in my location here. I can't really comment about this.
7: The NR is nicer on the 7300. The 990 NR is a bit too aggressive if turned up too high.
8: The TX audio was tested on both through w2ihy audio gear through the same Heil PR 40 mic at the same audio bandwidths on each radio. They were the same quality. Superb.
9: Digital is easier to interface to the 7300. Using fldigi on both worked well.
10: The only thing that was really pronounced and superior in my testing was the 990 noise blanker on impulse type noise, electrical transients, lightning etc. Although not bad on the 7300, still nowhere near as good as the 990'but better than the NB on the 7700 I used to have.

Of course the 990 has a lot more features but it costs more for extra power, antenna connectors, second RX etc etc....
So for any Hams wondering about what the 7300 compares to a high end rig let me say that it compares very well for basic radio performance and the scope might be smaller than the 990's but it is way superior.

I operated a friends TS 590 last year for a month and found its a great radio, but in comparison with the 7300,it's RX and TX dosent sound as good to my ears. And the bandscope is an indispensable tool which the 590 didn't have. That's why I would choose the 7300 over the 590.

You should try the 7300, if you don't like it you can always sell it very quick. They're selling like hot cakes and Icom can't keep up with demand!

Cheers, Les VK3TEX.
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K7JQ
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« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2016, 09:17:22 AM »

Thanks for the comparison, Les. I currently own an IC-7600, and from the many 7300 You Tube videos I've seen, it's amazing how much more advanced and adjustable  the 7300 scope is, compared to my 7600 with V2.0 upgrade that added the waterfall. You can even adjust it to show an actual sine wave like the Flex series, eliminating the noise "infill" between signal peaks, like the other Icom radios display. Yes, it's smaller, but I see that as a problem only for those with severe vision impairment.

I've pretty much always been a one-radio-at-a-time person, but with the 7300 at that price with those features, that thinking is waning.  Wink  I'll probably have a 7300 addition to the shack before the summer's done. A couple of other short-term priorities on the immediate horizon.

73,  Bob K7JQ
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VK3BL
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« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2016, 05:59:22 PM »

Kinda like comparing a tablet to a laptop or a laptop to a desktop in features. Trade offs are made with 7300 vs 590. 

Great analogy; no one buys desktops anymore, either.
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J.D. Mitchell - VK3BL / XU7AGA - http://vk3bl.wordpress.com
K5ACL
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« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2016, 12:53:58 PM »

+1 for the 590SG. Had a chance to play with the 7300 @ HamCom this year, although a great little radio, the 590SG is still my rig of choice. Controls were just a hair more comfortable on the 590SG, and I prefer to have my panadapter on a MUCH larger screen.

SDRPlay is also coming out with SDR1 (or SDRuno) software (which will also have panadapter function), if you've seen the look & feel of a flex radio on screen, this will be similar.



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PA1ZP
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Posts: 607




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« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2016, 09:41:07 AM »

Hi

I do own a TS590S.

Very good in SSB.
Awfully bad in CW RX audio.

And though I think the IC7300 is a realy cheap SDR toy, that realy performs much worse on antenna as in the measuring lab, in CW RX I would choose it over an TS590S as the CW reciever in the TS590S is realy the worst sounding I ever had, but it is great in only one thing and that is handling big contest signals.
But what is the use that it can handle big contest signals if you can not stand the awfull audio on your ears.

The TS590S in high QRM levels (from household electronics like smart phone chargers or other switching PSU junk) , has terrible ringing CW filters and an awfully worthless IF DSP noise reduction, even my old FT857D beats it big time in CW RX audio quality.
And believe me an FT857D hasn't got good RX audio at all.
I only used the USB port on my TS590S once to update software from version 05 to the latest about a year ago , and that didn't do shit to any problem in the CW recieve audio.

73 Jos
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VK3BL
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« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2016, 02:30:47 AM »


And though I think the IC7300 is a realy cheap SDR toy, that realy performs much worse on antenna as in the measuring lab


Based on what?  Kindly please share your reasoning behind that statement.
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J.D. Mitchell - VK3BL / XU7AGA - http://vk3bl.wordpress.com
PA1ZP
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Posts: 607




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« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2016, 09:13:33 AM »

Hi

I totaly agree with HB9PJT Peter.
A IC7300 is a toy SDR reciever, and it will get overloaded realy easy in here in Europe.
Still I would choose the 7300 over a 590S , I am able to test a 590SG against my 590S in a while and I will rport after that but for now the awfully bad filtering and audio of the TS590S in CW is a pain in the head for me.

And believe me testing in a lab of a reciever is totaly different as putting it on your ears on an antenna.

If I listen to my TS590S at my friends camping site when there are only few guests and he has about zero QRM at those times the TS590S does sound not that awfull in CW RX.
When I test it at home in very high QRM levels on 80 mtrs its audio quality is terribly bad.
And yes i did put the ATT in and did shut of the preamp, and still a CW filter with or a more narrow filter, I only hear ringing and a lot of noise. 
That does go for the IC7300 also it will react totaly different to lab testing as in the real world with more signals reaching the reciever as the 2 inputs in in the lab.

A friend of mine now uses a raspberry Pie based SDR TRX that stears an old IC730 bandpass filter system and power amplifier in TX, I think that this setup will be about the same quality as a IC7300.

But we'll see a good way to see how good a RX the IC7300 is very simple, the TS590S sold quite good the first 2 yrs and reviews were often very good, and after 4 yrs you could buy as many as you wanted on the second hand market they were dumped on all sides.
But it is still quite hard to find a decent TS480SAT second hand here.
I predict that there will be an overflow of second hand IC7300 in 3 yrs here in Europe.

Just keep me to my word in 3 yrs if I was wrong.
I surely hope for the IC7300 owners that I was totaly wrong, i will be the first to admit it and buy myself a nice brand new IC7300 in 3 yrs , as I said before I just love the size look and feel of it, and the fact that is a stand alone SDR rig that is not in need of a laptop or computer to be used, as i am still a very happy ham without any need of a computer in my shack.
They could throw out the colour display, touch screen, waterfall display, USB port or RS232 port though, I do not need those toys at all.
The fact is i am often in my shack just to get away of the daily job fight with those darn computers.

73 Jos   
 
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K9MHZ
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« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2016, 11:04:21 AM »

I'm sorry Jos, you're all over the place and impossible to follow.

Maybe you are correct about overloading the 7300, but this is the first I've read that, especially given that the 7300 is so new.  However, advances is functional routines written and placed between logic elements in SDR chips (reducing or even negating the older requirements for externals, ahem....Flex guys....) happen almost daily in many areas of industry.  

And the SG is very fine, I think the OP's topic question is very fair.
 
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