Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

donate to eham
   Home   Help Search  
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Chevy 2500 problem with Ham Radio equipment, HELP!  (Read 2739 times)
WX9DX
Member

Posts: 77




Ignore
« on: January 20, 2017, 07:10:01 PM »

I have an IC7000 in a 2016yr  Chevy 2500HD with a 6ltr gas engine. RFI PROBLEMS on HF!

 It has all the goodies in the dash! It plays fine at full power of 100watts from the amp under the back seat on two meters with a dual band mag mount on the roof. And at 440MHz it is just fine with the 35 watts the radio puts out.

 Where I have a problem is with the Predator Screwdriver on the drivers side rear, I get into the break system Anti Lock Breaking system failure indicator and stable track warnings on the dash when I transmit on HF over 50 watts. If I stay at 50 watts it only does it when I press the break while transmitting RF.  So if anyone can help figure that out please e-mail me. I'm good here and on QRZ.com

 The truck problem on HF has about drove me nuts and I have spent tons on RF clip on chokes. I tried 20 of them on wires in the back bumper area. Even the backup camera screws up while transmitting on HF. So I put a few Clip on chokes on it and that was at no avail. So I am pulling my hair out. I have had nothing but Chevy trucks and this 2016 is one that is not HF Ham Radio friendly. It has been nothing but a problem. I am afraid to even hook up my amp thinking it might kill this $50K truck! Great Job Chevy making this crap, sorry but never before has Chevy had a problem with any of my HF Ham Radio or Police radios in my trucks. But now this sucks. OBI WAN YOUR MY ONLY HOPE! I have worked on radio equipment all my life and have seen all kinds of stuff but I don't want to have to spend more money or time on this unless I know that it might really work.


Oh and Chevy said unless it is a warranty issue they will have nothing to do with this problem! That came from the Dealership Rep from a phone call he made to them.

I am not ego based enough to say I know everything, I don't and never will! Especially in the field of electronics I'm not a know it all! And this is in my field before I retired but this truck is kicking my A...

73 Jimmy, ARRL TS, WX9DX
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 07:12:38 PM by WX9DX » Logged
WZ7U
Member

Posts: 576




Ignore
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2017, 09:21:14 PM »

k0bg.com is your friend.

Maybe if you bond all the body panels better? (just spitballing)
Logged

================================================
WZ7U ~ originating from CN86jc +/-

Yet another imperfect being created by THE perfect God. Thank you Jesus!
AB3TH
Member

Posts: 194




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2017, 02:17:55 AM »

You need to isolate the problem a bit.  Is the problem the same on all HF bands?  What happens if you replace the screwdriver antenna with a dummy load?  Keep everything else the same.  You still get problems at 100W?  Clip-on chokes are not nearly as effective at HF as multi-turn chokes.  What happens if you replace the antenna cable with a temporary cable that has a really good choke?  Something tested on another system.  What happens if you move the Predator to a different location?  Other side of the truck.  Front bumper.  Just temporary with cables on the ground.  Do some temporary cables that are routed differently.  See if the problem changes depending on the cable path.  I know it's frustrating but maybe you can get some hints by trying different configurations and something will click. 
Logged
W9IQ
Member

Posts: 1706




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2017, 02:35:51 AM »

Jimmy,

You didn't mention how you connected the radios to the 12 VDC in the truck. That might add some insight. Don't ignore your DC wiring to the radio as a source of RFI back into the OEM truck electronics.

Many people go the route of snap-on cores because they are easy to install, particularly on factory wiring. But these cores have limited choking capability and are often not the right mix of ferrite for HF frequencies so their effectivity is limited.

Wherever possible, use torroid cores, type 31, with multiple turns. Four turns on this ferrite is worth more than 15 snap-on cores of the same material. And of course, more turns are better. This may not be a possibility on factory wiring but you should use multi-turn torroids on all added wires including a couple of spots on the coax to your antenna since this is likely carrying substantial common mode current. Make sure to include a couple torroids on the control cable to the Predator.

Another thing to try is a brute force filter on the 12 volt supply of the radio. These are designed to reduce differential mode RFI. The handbook and various websites have design ideas for this. This could be as simple as a bypass capacitor but low pass designs with inductors will offer more suppression. Make sure to size the inductor conductors to handle the current of your radios. The filter should be installed as close to your radio as possible.

You may also gain some insight by unplugging your Predator and putting a dummy load in its place without disturbing wiring locations, etc. If the problems persist, then you know it is probably not common mode current on the coax and probably not overload of the OEM electronics by near field radiation. Similarly, you could try setting up your radio outside of the truck on a 12 volt wall powered supply and feed the Predator (with multiple torroids on the cables) from there. This may give you a sense if the OEM electronics are simply subject to overload from near field RF.

You could also consider disconnecting your DC power to your radio at the point furthest away from the radio and temporarily substituting a separate, charged battery that is isolated from the truck's 12 volt charging system. If this helps reduce the RFI then look to your 12 volt wiring as carrying RF back to the OEM electronics. You may also find, in this case, that adding the second battery to your truck on a permanent basis may help with the RFI problems. My Chevy truck has a factory installed tray for a second battery. 

Be prepared that it may not be one "big thing" that cures the problem but it could be several steps that gradually dissipate the problem.

- Glenn W9IQ
Logged

- Glenn W9IQ

I never make a mistake. I thought I did once but I was wrong.
W8JX
Member

Posts: 12080




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2017, 03:44:37 AM »

Modern smart cars are far more sensitive to RFI. I never power rig directly from battery but I do always use a filter choke on power lead feeding rig that keep power line noise out and RFI from rig going out through power leg.  Also consider this. Though this may not be answer you want, there is only 3db, barely noticeable,  so difference between 100 watts and 50 so reduced power is not the problem you think it is.
Logged

--------------------------------------
Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
WX9DX
Member

Posts: 77




Ignore
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2017, 09:38:18 PM »

Am At wits end now! Have tried an MFJ RFI filter in the power line feeding the radio also a boost power supply that creates a stable 12 volts even if the battery voltage goes down to 10 volts.  Also have tried a dummy load on the antenna coax and the problem goes away when the radio is feeding a dummy load at the antenna location. I have added a wire man RF coax choke with 35 toroids beads around the coax of the choke, that did nothing also! I also installed a choke made from a spool of 40 foot of #10 wire with a iron bolt through the center and washers and a nut in the power line, that did not fix the problem. I tried a S9 vertical antenna on my camper ran from my Camper station and backed the truck up to that antenna " inches away from truck antenna". That did not cause the truck to have problems! I also tried running the radio off of a separate battery not the truck power system. And located the battery next to the radio, this still caused the trucks ABS warning, stable track and rear break controller warning systems to go off. I even changed the coil to ground on the predator antenna and cleaned the mount and ground straps. I did ohm out the ground connection to the bumper and to the frame and both were almost zero ohms, just a flicker on a fluke meter. The problem is on 40 meters over 45 to 50 watts when I hit the break mostly. And when I am talking on SSB 40 meters not hitting the break over 50 watts at and times. The warnings go off and I am worried that this might kill the trucks computer if it keeps up! So I have not hooked up my amp yet and this is the first Chevy I have had this problem in! Hate to say this but I have had Chevy trucks all my life and I'm 66. But because of this this might be my last, and I have mostly been buying a new truck every 3 to 5 years because of the warranty.

Please if you have any ideas please let me know on here or over e-mail. Also does anyone have Carl from the GM proving grounds contact info? I was told he might be able to be able to help fix  this problem with a chevy truck and ham radio HF gear! If this can't be fixed no one that is a Ham should buy a Chevy truck again, cause Chevy said they would not help since it's not factory equipment!
Well I don't tell them crap like that when I go out spotting tornados for them and others! What if we were like that when hurricanes hit? Way to go Chevy telling us Hams you won't help after all we do for you and after spending $50K for one of your trucks!

Yeah guys this problem is kicking my A still! Help please! Jimmy, ARRL TS, WX9DX
wx9dx@mwii.net
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 09:54:16 PM by WX9DX » Logged
WX9DX
Member

Posts: 77




Ignore
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2017, 10:06:19 PM »

 Cry
Where I am at now is I can't run the radios transmitter on 40 meters over 50 watts or the ABS warning, Stable track warning and rear break controller warnings go off on the dash. Also the video from the backup camera is bad when transmitting on 40 meters. On any other band I can go up to 100 watts. I did re route the cables once already just to get this far. It was worse. It did used to do it on every band except 75 meters till I re-ran the cables through the pipe cross member in the frame.

Again have grounds all over the vehicle. Have filters in the 12 volt line, have tried a separate battery etc. Please help! If anyone knows Carl the Ham OP from the GM proving ground please relay his contact info to me and if you have any ideas please let me know.

I'm not proud to say this, but this is kicking my A! Angry

Thanks!
Jimmy, ARRL TS, WX9DX
Logged
WX9DX
Member

Posts: 77




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2017, 10:27:39 PM »

You need to isolate the problem a bit.  Is the problem the same on all HF bands?  What happens if you replace the screwdriver antenna with a dummy load?  Keep everything else the same.  You still get problems at 100W?  Clip-on chokes are not nearly as effective at HF as multi-turn chokes.  What happens if you replace the antenna cable with a temporary cable that has a really good choke?  Something tested on another system.  What happens if you move the Predator to a different location?  Other side of the truck.  Front bumper.  Just temporary with cables on the ground.  Do some temporary cables that are routed differently.  See if the problem changes depending on the cable path.  I know it's frustrating but maybe you can get some hints by trying different configurations and something will click.  

Dummy load, did that works fine with dummy load!!! When it screws up I get==> warning light problems when on 40 meters over 50 watts of tx output! Have strung a coax around the truck on the ground and still had the warnings on the dash. Installed a wireman rf choke at base of antenna and that did not help. So tried two in series and still did not work. That was 70 ferrite beads with the two of them. Have two ferrite "multi turns on them 6 each"  chokes on the antenna motor wire at base of antenna, and 20 clip on chokes on that wire under back seat. Re-ran the control cable outside the vehicle on the ground and the problem still was there. Please help!!! Thanks big time BTW I'm really pulling at straws now.. 73 Jimmy, WX9DX
Logged
WZ7U
Member

Posts: 576




Ignore
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2017, 01:16:04 AM »

OK, I'm just a dummy but it sounds like maybe some ferrite needs to start going on the truck componentry. Perhaps it's something as simple as ham cable routing vs truck harness routing (parallelism).

I'm sure someone already said KØBG dot com, but there it is just in case.

Man, I feel for ya, these things can make you want to burn it down and start over. Don't give up and PLEASE pass on the eventual fix, I know you will find the silver bullet soon. Carry on  Smiley
Logged

================================================
WZ7U ~ originating from CN86jc +/-

Yet another imperfect being created by THE perfect God. Thank you Jesus!
W8JX
Member

Posts: 12080




Ignore
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2017, 04:15:54 AM »

You need to isolate the problem a bit.  Is the problem the same on all HF bands?  What happens if you replace the screwdriver antenna with a dummy load?  Keep everything else the same.  You still get problems at 100W?  Clip-on chokes are not nearly as effective at HF as multi-turn chokes.  What happens if you replace the antenna cable with a temporary cable that has a really good choke?  Something tested on another system.  What happens if you move the Predator to a different location?  Other side of the truck.  Front bumper.  Just temporary with cables on the ground.  Do some temporary cables that are routed differently.  See if the problem changes depending on the cable path.  I know it's frustrating but maybe you can get some hints by trying different configurations and something will click.  

Dummy load, did that works fine with dummy load!!! When it screws up I get==> warning light problems when on 40 meters over 50 watts of tx output! Have strung a coax around the truck on the ground and still had the warnings on the dash. Installed a wireman rf choke at base of antenna and that did not help. So tried two in series and still did not work. That was 70 ferrite beads with the two of them. Have two ferrite "multi turns on them 6 each"  chokes on the antenna motor wire at base of antenna, and 20 clip on chokes on that wire under back seat. Re-ran the control cable outside the vehicle on the ground and the problem still was there. Please help!!! Thanks big time BTW I'm really pulling at straws now.. 73 Jimmy, WX9DX

Try a few things. First move antenna to passenger side rear from driver side and see what effect it has. Look at where you are routing coax for antenna. Chevy trucks generally run wiring for fuel pump, ABS and such down driver side of frame. Run coax/antenna feeds down passenger side of frame when you relocate it to passenger side. This should reduce RF getting into cars systems. You need to relocate antenna before you try anything else. Also the MFJ voltage booster is a total waste of money and its need is greatly over rated. Move antenna and wires to it and post results. Also before you move it log power levels at which problems are caused before and after move.

Also consider that 50 watts or 3db is not a big a deal as you might think.
Logged

--------------------------------------
Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
W9IQ
Member

Posts: 1706




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2017, 04:35:45 AM »

Jimmy,

You might get some insight by reading the diagnostic codes generated when you had the RFI problem. Many autoparts stores will plug in an analyzer and read the code log for free.

The ABS, traction control and braking are all inter related. There are sensors on the rear wheels that could be picking up the RFI. Your brake light wires could also pick up RFI.

Since your problem is on 40 meters, you should purchase some snap on cores made of #75 ferrite material. These will have the best choking effect on 40 meters - don't use just any old ferrite material. Add some of these to your wheel sensor wires, your brake light wires, to thke wires on the brake and cruise control switch on the stem of the brake pedal, and to both ends of your coax cable. Where ever you have room, place more than one #75 core.

- Glenn W9IQ
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 04:38:08 AM by W9IQ » Logged

- Glenn W9IQ

I never make a mistake. I thought I did once but I was wrong.
KAPT4560
Member

Posts: 383




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2017, 04:48:39 AM »

 You might also want to read W4AKF's 7.3L truck installation ordeal in this section. Chevy, Ford or Ram makes little difference. You can use 'Best-Practices' during the installation and still have problems. There are many 'small-signal' sensors and modules on-board that there didn't used to be years ago. We got problems in areas where we didn't have areas before.
 The Stability-Trac and ABS both use the same wheel speed sensors (WSS) at each wheel hub for their reference signal. It is a small AC signal, probably a digital Hall-effect square wave signal that varies in frequency with wheel speed. If it is an electromagnet winding reading the teeth on a selector, then it would be very vulnerable to RFI.
If it sees an imbalance in wheel speeds (spin or lock-up), the controller (module) will take appropriate action.
 You might want to sheath the sensor pigtails at all 4 wheels in a woven mesh conduit?
 http://img.directindustry.com/images_di/photo-m2/knitted-wire-mesh-emi-shielding-cable-sleevings-35048-2825343.jpg
Twisting wire-pairs also helps minimize the effects of RFI.
 https://i.stack.imgur.com/Y2hTM.png
Logged
W8JX
Member

Posts: 12080




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2017, 09:08:16 AM »


The ABS, traction control and braking are all inter related. There are sensors on the rear wheels that could be picking up the RFI. Your brake light wires could also pick up RFI.


You are missing the obvious. Antenna is on same side as chassis harness for those systems (you would know this if you ever worked on them). I would start by moving antenna to other side and rerouting wiring to it down other side of truck away from chassis wiring.
Logged

--------------------------------------
Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
WX9DX
Member

Posts: 77




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2017, 06:51:32 PM »

 I have worked on vehicle radios in squads and fire trucks etc all of my working life. And I have ran a radio lab for years for the State. BTW   Roll Eyes No one knows everything and everyone does make a mistake sometimes.... So help is needed not weird remarks or criticizing me and others ideas.

 I have the radio remote head harness down the center from the front of the truck to the radio under the back seat of the crew cab "2016 z71 6ltr gas truck", BTW a $52.5K vehicle with all the electronics the MFR has almost. I ran the coax and control cable for the screwdriver antenna down the right side to just in front of the right rear tire then inside the pipe that connects both haves of the frame to the drivers side. Then just a few feet to the antenna out the drivers side rear. The antenna sticks out at an angle from the driver's side rear. It has worked there on all of my Chevy trucks , and that is all I have ever had was a Chevy truck since I started driving almost, and I'm 66 now, so that's a lot of trucks. About everyone of them has had HF in it and all of them have had VHF and UHF. Never a problem I could not fix so far till the 2016 one I have now.  The 2012 had some problem on 20 meters with the dash warning lights and putting .01mfd caps in the rear light housings to the body ground did fix that.

If you Sir did read all of my QRZ page you'd know not to criticize me as You'd know I have followed all of the common things installing this unit, also some uncommon things. LOL I have No rf on the outside of the coax as the RF current meter shows. I did install 2 wire man RF BALUN / CHOKES at the base of the antenna in series with each other in the RG8X coax line. Inside the cab I have had 25 Mix 31 RF snap on chokes on the coax and still not fix the problem! The Coax run on the ground and grass around the vehicle using 50' of coax, still the problem did not go away on 7 Mhz. But it does go away when I use a dummy load instead of the antenna. Meaning it is a radiated RF energy problem on 7 Mhz. I can even disconnect the control cable at the antenna and inside the vehicle and still have the problems on 7Mhz. I have two inline Ferrites from the antenna controller company inline at the antenna to stop RF on the control wires.

Right now I have to be over 50 watts on 7Mhz to have alarm lights light up on the dash, ABS, Rear Break controller etc. BTW the wires in the back run down the center of the trucks I beam. And running the antenna on a coax laying on the ground from the right side around the truck to the antenna with the control line not even in place there is still a problem on 40 meters above 50 watts. I'm at whit's end running over 75 feet of short 1/2 inch and 3/4 inch straps all over the truck to bond frame and body structures. So when I run everything down the right side and across the back the radio messes up the warning lights on the dash on every HF band above 50 watts and on 40 meters it does it over 25 watts. So I run the control cable and coax under the right side to the cross pipe and then down the left rear just a few feet to the antenna above the rear tire.  And then the problem only is on 40 meters. The RF current probe shows no RF on the coax or control cable. And again running 50 foot RG 8 cable did not fix it either. I am hooked to two amplifier filament chokes inside the vehicle then to the Antenna automatic control unit. The control unit tunes the antenna just fine on every band!

Close field RF from a base station antenna at 100 watts 6 inches away from the truck antenna does not set off the alarms. Running 6 35 foot ground wires from the antenna mount does not fix it either.

Any constructive ideas would be great but please no snide remarks as that does not fix my problem with this truck just makes the writer feel like their better than everyone else. This will be my last Chevy truck and it's because Chevy will not do or offer anything for me to try. But the Ford dealer did offer some help by saying to try running the cables thru the rear frame pipe and that did help lots. I thought it was a cable length problem and that did not prove out. I have 2 #4 positive wires coming from the battery and a #4 ground cable. The battery Ground cable hooks to the rear seat bolt passenger side where I have my radio's
ground wire for the 13.8 volt MFJ boost power supply and MFJ DC in line filter before the power supply on the battery side. The truck turns off the alternator while driving down the highway and the truck runs fine on 10 volts but the radio shuts down without the boost power supply giving it's 13.8v regulated to the radio.

Really any help would be great. I really don't want the antenna on the passenger side or in the front of the truck.
Thanks
Jimmy, ARRL TS, WX9DX
Logged
W4AMP
Member

Posts: 24




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2017, 10:09:07 PM »

Verify that antenna is grounded well. Grounding straps are a good start.

Also try a toroid on your coax and your control cable.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!