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Author Topic: "Best" Sub $1000 HF Rig, New or Used?  (Read 18622 times)
W8JX
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Posts: 12080




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« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2017, 01:41:03 PM »

And you know this from owning one and using it for a long time, or just borrowing one for a bit?  I agree with KC3RN, and that is based on over a year of using it on the air.

I know this from playing it side by side with several other rigs on a bench at Universal more than once swaping rigs on same signal via nice setup they have. The 450 is a very cheaply done IF DSP rig and many older analog rigs will blow it away and it is no remote match for a 7200, 7300, 7410, 480, 590, 1200, to name a few, played it next to. Some seem to think that mere presence of IF DSP promises top performance but it does not anf you truly get what you pay for with 450 and it isn't much. I used to repair rig many years ago and I know how to find design weaknesses quickly on rigs.
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
GM1FLQ
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Posts: 794




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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2017, 12:52:35 AM »

I agree about it being less than perfect, but I find it's a fun rig to operate.  And yes, it shines on digital operation,

Shine like maybe a very dim light bulb. The only thing that salvages it there is sound card selectivity because rig does not have it anf has few menu options for it too.

And you know this from owning one and using it for a long time, or just borrowing one for a bit?  I agree with KC3RN, and that is based on over a year of using it on the air.

See this typical & poor argument all the time.

Some look into the technicalities/design architecture and have the ability to understand it.........without having to own everything before forming a decent opinion.  

........and on the other hand, no matter how long some have owned equipment they will never appreciate how good/bad it is - because they just don't have the aptitude.

« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 01:08:00 AM by GM1FLQ » Logged
KC3RN
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Posts: 200




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« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2017, 03:52:48 AM »

My 480 has been "one piece" for nearly as long as I have had it. They make a MB-480 mount assembly that rig bolts to the has a side carry handle and it also mounts head or rig directly in front of body and it comes with a short cable to connect it too. For some reason in some countries it ships with MB-480 but in states its a option (about 45 bucks)


I wish I would have known that.  It may have influenced my buying decision.....  Having the RF unit and control head separated is a royal PITA.  That's one of the reasons I ditched my 7100.

I like Kenwood rigs (currently own 4).  I never owned a Yaesu rig before I bought the 450.  I know you hate them, but it works for me.  Wink
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W8JX
Member

Posts: 12080




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« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2017, 04:04:46 AM »

I wish I would have known that.  It may have influenced my buying decision.....  Having the RF unit and control head separated is a royal PITA.  That's one of the reasons I ditched my 7100.

I think Kenwood should of shipped all 480's with the MB 480 mount kit. Makes it easy to pick rig up and move it or take it places. You can detach head and use it as separates when you want too. I have not removed the MB 480 mounting bracket since I bought years ago.
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
KC3RN
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Posts: 200




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« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2017, 05:11:05 AM »


I think Kenwood should of shipped all 480's with the MB 480 mount kit. Makes it easy to pick rig up and move it or take it places. You can detach head and use it as separates when you want too. I have not removed the MB 480 mounting bracket since I bought years ago.

I would agree.  I think there are a lot of ops (me included) that really don't like the two piece format.  The 480 was on my short list when I bought the 450.  I decided against it simply because of the format.  I think Icom has had the same issue with the 7100.  The 7100 is not a bad radio, it just "non-traditional", which puts some people off.

I understand having a detachable faceplate, like on a VHF/UHF mobile rig, or an IC-706.  But the larger, separate control heads like the 480 and 7100 just don't make as much sense to me.
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W8JX
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Posts: 12080




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« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2017, 06:18:32 AM »


I think Kenwood should of shipped all 480's with the MB 480 mount kit. Makes it easy to pick rig up and move it or take it places. You can detach head and use it as separates when you want too. I have not removed the MB 480 mounting bracket since I bought years ago.

I would agree.  I think there are a lot of ops (me included) that really don't like the two piece format.  The 480 was on my short list when I bought the 450.  I decided against it simply because of the format.  I think Icom has had the same issue with the 7100.  The 7100 is not a bad radio, it just "non-traditional", which puts some people off.

I understand having a detachable faceplate, like on a VHF/UHF mobile rig, or an IC-706.  But the larger, separate control heads like the 480 and 7100 just don't make as much sense to me.

From a engineering point of view there is a lot a good logic behind 480's design. First not mounting head on front allows them to most all aux connector to front leaving more room for bigger/wider heat sink cooling fans in rear. Plus, no front panel on chassis mean better ventilation for cooling as it car draw air in front of chassis too and together with more room bigger heat sink and cooling fans on rear makes it possible to be a reliable 200 watt unit in HX version.
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
N0YXB
Member

Posts: 1121




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« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2017, 08:08:59 AM »

And you know this from owning one and using it for a long time, or just borrowing one for a bit?  I agree with KC3RN, and that is based on over a year of using it on the air.

I know this from playing it side by side with several other rigs on a bench at Universal more than once swaping rigs on same signal via nice setup they have. The 450 is a very cheaply done IF DSP rig and many older analog rigs will blow it away and it is no remote match for a 7200, 7300, 7410, 480, 590, 1200, to name a few, played it next to. Some seem to think that mere presence of IF DSP promises top performance but it does not anf you truly get what you pay for with 450 and it isn't much. I used to repair rig many years ago and I know how to find design weaknesses quickly on rigs.

Not so sure that trumps owning and using one everyday. I've also done plenty of commercial component-level repair and also repaired military avionics during my stint in the service. So maybe all this boils down to opinion and it's not wrong to own and enjoy an FT-450?

I personally don't like the appearance of the 480. But I understand it's a fine rig. With that said, I hope those who own the 480 enjoy it.

It's important to remember that our opinions are not facts. It's okay that many of us defy you and actually like our FT-450s. It's okay.  Wink

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W8JX
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Posts: 12080




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« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2017, 09:55:01 AM »


Not so sure that trumps owning and using one everyday. I've also done plenty of commercial component-level repair and also repaired military avionics during my stint in the service. So maybe all this boils down to opinion and it's not wrong to own and enjoy an FT-450?


If you have low standards or never had a good rig you might think a 450 is great but it is nothing but a bare bones entry level rig whose weakness are very apparent against rigs I mentioned above. The 450 reminds me of and plays like a cheap CB style rig with a VFO for ham bands. If you live with it, you get used to it I guess.
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
GM1FLQ
Member

Posts: 794




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« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2017, 10:10:32 AM »



Not so sure that trumps owning and using one everyday..........


.........and not sure owning and using one everyday assumes any aptitude (or greater value in the views) of those doing so.

Can own & use one for as long as you like, but if you don't understand what you* are seeing then your* opinions are of limited value.

(* figuratively speaking)
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W8JX
Member

Posts: 12080




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« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2017, 04:43:44 PM »



Not so sure that trumps owning and using one everyday..........


.........and not sure owning and using one everyday assumes any aptitude (or greater value in the views) of those doing so.

Can own & use one for as long as you like, but if you don't understand what you* are seeing then your* opinions are of limited value.

(* figuratively speaking)

Well put! Smiley
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
N0YXB
Member

Posts: 1121




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« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2017, 07:21:16 AM »



Not so sure that trumps owning and using one everyday..........


.........and not sure owning and using one everyday assumes any aptitude (or greater value in the views) of those doing so.

Can own & use one for as long as you like, but if you don't understand what you* are seeing then your* opinions are of limited value.

(* figuratively speaking)

Well put! Smiley

But completely incorrect in this case.  Wink

But you Debbie Downers enjoy yourselves. The FT-450 is kind of low on the list of things worthy of griping about considering this is a hobby. Guess when you get old and bitter you have to have something to rail about.

Although my experience and accomplishments likely exceed that of a retired board swapper, I know there is no way that I compete with a 'legend in his own mind' who does not yet understand the difference between facts and opinion. But keep it up, it's really entertaining. Some of my JX favorites include you arguing with a Physicist about metallurgy and questioning his intelligence. Then there's the argument with someone who has spent a career designing power amplifiers, and you questioned his intelligence. That's just a couple of many fun posts you've shared with us. Keep them coming, and I'll keep enjoying my 'JX unapproved' radios.

« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 07:34:41 AM by N0YXB » Logged
W8JX
Member

Posts: 12080




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« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2017, 08:39:40 AM »

I'll keep enjoying my 'JX unapproved' radios.

One day when you get a real radio you will see the light but you will never admit it. A FT450 is a cheap bare bone limited performance rig by design and no amount of lipstick will change that
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
GM1FLQ
Member

Posts: 794




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« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2017, 11:12:39 AM »



Guess when you get old and bitter you have to have something to rail about.




Guess when you are younger and have less life skills/experience ignorance is bliss.
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WW7KE
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Posts: 581




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« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2017, 12:06:24 PM »

A FT450 is a cheap bare bone limited performance rig by design and no amount of lipstick will change that

Whoever said it wasn't?  It is what it is, a basic radio, and it was designed to a particular (low) price point.  Performance won't be as good as rigs costing over $1K, but for the price it's completely usable.  I bought it because it was inexpensive.  Fifty years ago, people bought HW-100s for the same reason, even though they knew very well that it wasn't up to the level of a KWM-2 or a TR-4.  If I could have afforded a better rig, I would have bought one.  It's none of your damn business anyway.

If you don't like it, fine.  Don't buy one.  Your choice in rigs is up to you.  It's not your place to complain about what others buy.  You'd probably whine about a Prius because one should not take it off-road or race in the Daytona 500 with it.
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He speaks fluent PSK31...  One QSO with him earns you 5BDXCC...  His Wouff Hong has two Wouffs... Hiram Percy Maxim called HIM "The Old Man..."  He is... The Most Interesting Ham In The World!
N0YXB
Member

Posts: 1121




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« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2017, 01:25:02 PM »

A FT450 is a cheap bare bone limited performance rig by design and no amount of lipstick will change that

Whoever said it wasn't?  It is what it is, a basic radio, and it was designed to a particular (low) price point.  Performance won't be as good as rigs costing over $1K, but for the price it's completely usable.  I bought it because it was inexpensive.  Fifty years ago, people bought HW-100s for the same reason, even though they knew very well that it wasn't up to the level of a KWM-2 or a TR-4.  If I could have afforded a better rig, I would have bought one.  It's none of your damn business anyway.

If you don't like it, fine.  Don't buy one.  Your choice in rigs is up to you.  It's not your place to complain about what others buy.  You'd probably whine about a Prius because one should not take it off-road or race in the Daytona 500 with it.

Indeed! And I enjoy mine even more knowing that a certain bitter, opinionated, always-right individual disapproves.
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