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Author Topic: Is Icom 7610 in trouble?  (Read 34797 times)
GM1FLQ
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« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2017, 10:59:06 AM »

Quote
Yes, nerves are on edge.

You're kidding, right? Its just a radio! Relax, it'll happen.  Shocked

:-)  If you really want nerves on edge, just listen to the news about "Washington" each day.
Wonder how long until Kim/Donald start world war III ?   Then again, if our interceptors actually
work and catch the ICBM while it is high enough, maybe THAT would finally help propagation in this
solar cycle?  Nah, bad, bad idea....

Small Fat Wun has been running around like the delinquent playground bully while the world/UN (and those in power then) as good as stood by wringing their hands - and now it is going to be a bigger problem to sort.

I wouldn't bank on the interceptors catching every ICBM..........wouldn't fancy finding out, wonder what realistic options that leaves........

« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 11:19:51 AM by GM1FLQ » Logged
VE3WGO
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« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2017, 02:43:02 PM »

The Flex 6400 will be $1999, and 6400M will be $2999.  The 6600 is $3999, 6600M is $4999. 

The biggest difference seems to be that the 6400(M) has 2 receivers on the same antenna, while the 6600(M) has 4 receivers and can operate from 2 antennas simultaneously.  Priced to be $1k per receiver and transmitters are free.  Flex displays for the pixel fans are 1920x1200, which, if you're looking at a typical HF band all at once makes each SSB signal about 19 pixels wide, if that's important to you.

IC-7610 has two receivers, that seem to be on the same antenna, like the 6400(M), but I can't confirm it so this might not be true.  7610 display is just 800x480, which if pixels matter more to you than performance, will cause no end of sleepless nights even though a full band scan still shows 8 pixels wide per SSB signal. 

Prices for these higher end SDR transceivers are dropping like a stone.  I wonder if Icom and Flex are just playing chicken and waiting to see who blinks first, if their listed prices are only introductory prices which will rise later.

And most important of all to me, I will wonder where these radios are going to be made.



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K8EZB
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« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2017, 03:07:08 PM »

Quote
I will wonder where these radios are going to be made.

And, in both cases, when they will be made!  Grin
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W1BG
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« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2017, 05:34:33 PM »

No question ICOM will feel some competitive heat from Flex, but just IMO the 7610 looks somewhat nicer sitting on the desktop (than a 6400M).  Remember, some of us need "WAF" (Wife Approval Factor).

And no, you don't need a computer with the 6400M/6600M but it's still MS-Windows based and the Maestro, whether separate or bolted-onto the front is still a Windows client that still has to go through a painfully slow boot-up process while the O/S loads.  Also if you feel like doing a MARS mod it'll cost you $700 for the module (plus proof of MARS credentials)

I'll admit to being a tad disappointed in ICOM's decision to stay with VGA resolution, but it's really not that big of a deal unless you want to put it up on a big monitor. For me the built-in 7" screen will be fine.
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The Pay-TV Industry may not hold the patent on poor customer service, but Comcast in particular has made an art form of it.
KC9NRN
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« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2017, 07:35:23 AM »

I find it strange that Icom would have a huge, public, HQ party last December, showing off the radio and letting people play with it, with lots of talk between then and Dayton.  Then Icom showed it Dayton, but so did Flex with their new products.

Next, there was some rumor of problems found at Dayton, and then, "radio silence" since then.

Fast forward;   Last week I asked the organizers of the HamCon coming up in September at Torrance, CA (Los Angeles area) if Icom was coming.   They said, Flex is coming, but Icom cancelled and said they had a schedule conflict.

Hmm....    Los Angeles is probably the largest Western US market for Ham Radio.
What other larger region radio show is going on September 15 this year?
Several people contacted Icom, and they will not budge.

I wonder what problems Icom found at Dayton?  And I wonder if the Flex 6400M price and features is making Icom "re-work" their feature set?   With the 7610 so close to launch, why such silence from Icom?

Neal

Very valid points, if true it's nice that Flex was able to knock them off of their feet a bit. It will be interesting to see what transpires in the next few months.


I doubt that Flex had anything to do with it.  The IC-7610 design was probably firm two years ago so they are not going to go changing it at this stage of the game.  I think they may have found a software issue or even possibly a hardware design issue that has to be addressed.  Better they address it now than sell a gacked up radio and try to fix them on the fly with software patches and expensive hardware fixes like other have done.

The design was probably firm 2 years ago and yet after Dayton it pulls a disappearing act, what else was at Dayton, the new Flex radios. I have no idea what the actual reason is but "something" caused Icom to yank it, maybe Flex caused it, maybe not. If the design was firm 2 years ago that says something when they up and disappear and we hear nothing, none of what it says is good. If Flex pulled this, this forum would be having a field day over it and calling them out.
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KA4DPO
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Posts: 775




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« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2017, 08:50:44 AM »

I find it strange that Icom would have a huge, public, HQ party last December, showing off the radio and letting people play with it, with lots of talk between then and Dayton.  Then Icom showed it Dayton, but so did Flex with their new products.

Next, there was some rumor of problems found at Dayton, and then, "radio silence" since then.

Fast forward;   Last week I asked the organizers of the HamCon coming up in September at Torrance, CA (Los Angeles area) if Icom was coming.   They said, Flex is coming, but Icom cancelled and said they had a schedule conflict.

Hmm....    Los Angeles is probably the largest Western US market for Ham Radio.
What other larger region radio show is going on September 15 this year?
Several people contacted Icom, and they will not budge.

I wonder what problems Icom found at Dayton?  And I wonder if the Flex 6400M price and features is making Icom "re-work" their feature set?   With the 7610 so close to launch, why such silence from Icom?

Neal

Very valid points, if true it's nice that Flex was able to knock them off of their feet a bit. It will be interesting to see what transpires in the next few months.


I doubt that Flex had anything to do with it.  The IC-7610 design was probably firm two years ago so they are not going to go changing it at this stage of the game.  I think they may have found a software issue or even possibly a hardware design issue that has to be addressed.  Better they address it now than sell a gacked up radio and try to fix them on the fly with software patches and expensive hardware fixes like other have done.

The design was probably firm 2 years ago and yet after Dayton it pulls a disappearing act, what else was at Dayton, the new Flex radios. I have no idea what the actual reason is but "something" caused Icom to yank it, maybe Flex caused it, maybe not. If the design was firm 2 years ago that says something when they up and disappear and we hear nothing, none of what it says is good. If Flex pulled this, this forum would be having a field day over it and calling them out.

I have been in the business of designing state of the art radios.  My point was, and still is that the configuration is locked, Icom is not going to re-design the IC-7610.  There may be some aspects of the circuitry or software that require changes but they are going to go back to the drawing board.  I'm sure you understand that and were just attempting to be contrary.

The fact that Flex was at Xenia doesn't have anything to do with Icom's decision.  Flex was at Dayton when they rolled out the IC-7300 and as you may recall it was five months after that the 7300 became available.  Whatever it is I am certain it is being addressed by the engineering department at Icom and we will see it as soon as the FCC approves it.  The very thought that Flex radio had anything to do with Icom's decision is simply ludicrous, they are not a serious competitor in the way that Yaesu and Kenwood are.
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VE3WGO
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« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2017, 09:27:40 AM »

KA4DPO, I am in the same business area as you.  Sometimes major product issues do surface in commercial operations. For my part, I expect that the 7610 failed either the corporate return on investment calculations, or FCC testing.  Either way, the reason would have high impact on hardware design, and if they intend to actually produce the 7610, it has to first get corrected.

Few other reasons would force a company to pull a new product out of advertising, pre-release retailer promotion, and public demonstration so completely as Icom has done in the past 2.5 months.

Product promotions never get silenced by software delays.  I seriously doubt that this is just a software bug they discovered.

73, Ed VE3WGO
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W9OY
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« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2017, 10:42:42 AM »

Pretty funny to watch all the Icom fan boys twist in the wind

73  W9OY
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N6YFM
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« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2017, 11:39:26 AM »

Pretty funny to watch all the Icom fan boys twist in the wind

73  W9OY

Not at all :-)
And in the mean time, I am having boat loads of fun with FT8 mode.
In the end, not sure if I buy Icom or Flex, so no twisting here.
No loss of sleep.
While it is indeed of interest, I do still have other things to do, and don't loose
even once moment of sleep over it.
Serve no fine wine until it's time...
That said, I just LOVE a nice open market competitive environment.
Between new radios and new LDMOS amplifiers coming to market,
there will be a healthy array of choices for us all.
Now, ...  if we can just figure out what to do about MFJ buying up antenna makers
and ruining their products with cheap parts that will not even last through the warranty
period???!!!!   Oh, wait, I guess that just simply changes the hobby to something like;
"Buy your rig, build your own antenna."  Oh darn...  :-)


Cheers
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KA4DPO
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« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2017, 12:15:12 PM »

KA4DPO, I am in the same business area as you.  Sometimes major product issues do surface in commercial operations. For my part, I expect that the 7610 failed either the corporate return on investment calculations, or FCC testing.  Either way, the reason would have high impact on hardware design, and if they intend to actually produce the 7610, it has to first get corrected.

Few other reasons would force a company to pull a new product out of advertising, pre-release retailer promotion, and public demonstration so completely as Icom has done in the past 2.5 months.

Product promotions never get silenced by software delays.  I seriously doubt that this is just a software bug they discovered.

73, Ed VE3WGO

Very true.  It could be a component problem, either a source change with different configuration or an upgrade.   But because this is a digital radio, any changes in the circuitry or components will require software changes as well.  Whatever it is, will be fixed before it hits the street.  As I recal, there have been several Flex radios released that required some major fixes after the fact.  So before anyone puffs up their chest keep in mind that neither the Icom or any of the proposed Flex rigs are available for purchase right now.

As for me I Share N6YFM's attitude, it's just not that big of a deal.  Having said that I need to go get some new tires on my truck.
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K0UA
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« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2017, 01:09:30 PM »

Well, this ole fat Icom fanboy is twisting REAL hard in the wind.  Yeah, by the way I am also a Yaesu and Kenwood fanboy too.  And I could easily be a Flex fanboy If I could afford one.  If Flex has put stress on Icom, thats a good thing. I can tell you who this benefits most. It benefits us as consumers as manufactures go head to head with new cutting edge products and attempt to undercut each other in pricing. And I don't think anyone can argue that Icom has put plenty of stress on Flex.   By the way, I am not going to buy either a Flex or a new Icom 7610.  I jumped on the Ic7300 bandwagon with a radio I could actually afford, or at least justify. And it is one kickazz radio that does all I need it to do.
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KF7DS
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« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2017, 09:17:05 PM »

Pretty funny to watch all the Icom fan boys twist in the wind

73  W9OY

Wow....showing your true colors. I am not a fanboy of either Flex or Icom and I have a 6300 as well as a 7300. There is an old saying..."Don't throw stones from glass houses".

It would serve you well.
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KC9NRN
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« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2017, 07:05:01 AM »

Quote
Posted by: KA4DPO -
My point was, and still is that the configuration is locked, Icom is not going to re-design the IC-7610.  There may be some aspects of the circuitry or software that require changes but they are going to go back to the drawing board.

Your point prior was it was probably firm, now your point is the configuration is locked.

Quote
I'm sure you understand that and were just attempting to be contrary.

 I never said they were going to re-design it, my point was and is that they pulled it out for a reason, which was probably to change a few things, clearly I wasn't stating they were redesigning anything.

Quote
The fact that Flex was at Xenia doesn't have anything to do with Icom's decision.  Flex was at Dayton when they rolled out the IC-7300 and as you may recall it was five months after that the 7300 became available.  Whatever it is I am certain it is being addressed by the engineering department at Icom and we will see it as soon as the FCC approves it.  The very thought that Flex radio had anything to do with Icom's decision is simply ludicrous, they are not a serious competitor in the way that Yaesu and Kenwood are.

The facts are you don't know, I don't know. I also didn't say it was because of Flex, I said if true it would be nice. That experience of designing radios doesn't make you an expert on this, you're assuming just like everybody else. Icom showed that radio for how long and suddenly poof its gone, I agree they are likely working on some bugs and we'll see it when we see it, until then everybody is playing the same guessing game.

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KC9NRN
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« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2017, 07:07:23 AM »

One last point, if Flex pulled a radio, the assumptions of their demise would be all over this forum.
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KA4DPO
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« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2017, 08:54:41 AM »

One last point, if Flex pulled a radio, the assumptions of their demise would be all over this forum.

Yeah, lucky for Flex they don't have any new radios to pull.

And how do you know Icom isn't going under?  This might well be the nail in their coffin for all you know.  I mean, they might have taken one look at those cobbled together Flex offerings with the groovy Maestro screwed on to the front panel and gone home to commit ritual bushido suicide.



I don't know what radio business you are in  Huh  but they must do things differently than most other corporations.  At Harris configuration meant basic design structure and that included the electronic architecture.  Changes were made to individual circuits to improve operation or to fix an anomaly that crept into the design right up until the product was delivered to the customer.  Never was the design architecture changed or, operating features added or removed without a major review, and I do mean major.  Cost vs profit is everything to corporations.

 So if they are in fact making some huge change, or throwing it in the trash because after the IC-7300 debacle they realized they simply cant compete with Flex as you suggested, then I guess we won't be seeing Icom anymore.  Oh well, they had a good run and I'm sure MFJ will buy what's left of the company and sell kits that don't work.

Speculating on why Icom pulled their new radio from a ham show and stopped advertising is fine.  Trying to weave another radio manufacturer, be it Flex , or anyone else, into a conspiracy of doom and gloom is juvenile.  Icom is a very large company, even the US Government buys radios from them.  They have a reputation for quality and if for some reason a product threatens to undermine that reputation without some repair then what do you think their response is going to be?   Roll Eyes 
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