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Author Topic: Too Much cluster stalking  (Read 6911 times)
AJ2I
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Posts: 18




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« on: September 23, 2017, 01:05:20 PM »

Over the past few years I've noticed something. More people staring and working the cluster then spinning the VFO.

Far too often I hear DX calling CQ and begging for QSO's, usually because they haven't been spotted yet.

One spot and bam, a pileup begins.

I know this isn't new, but seems to be getting worse.

 I find myself with the same problem, calling CQ for 15 minutes to no avail. I know I'm being heard, but too many people just staring at the cluster and of course I won't self spot..

I guess it's just the nature of people being lazy, but it's not fishing if you just wait for the them to land in your bucket.



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KG4RUL
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« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2017, 01:52:30 PM »

Over the past few years I've noticed something. More people staring and working the cluster then spinning the VFO.

Far too often I hear DX calling CQ and begging for QSO's, usually because they haven't been spotted yet.

One spot and bam, a pileup begins.

I know this isn't new, but seems to be getting worse.

 I find myself with the same problem, calling CQ for 15 minutes to no avail. I know I'm being heard, but too many people just staring at the cluster and of course I won't self spot..

I guess it's just the nature of people being lazy, but it's not fishing if you just wait for the them to land in your bucket.





Why not?  It is a way to let the world know you are there and waiting for contact.  As my Father used to say, sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face!
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KM4SII
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Posts: 240




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« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2017, 03:01:01 PM »

I made the mistake of self-spotting a few times and received an email telling me that it was frowned upon to self-spot and that I should not do it.

I think the only times self spotting is okay is:

- When a band often dead is open but few realize it
- If you are rare DX but are not getting a pile-up after calling CQ for a while
- Or if you are calling CQ on a more unusual, not frequently used mode...

Just my opinion on the subject  Smiley

73 de KM4SII - Mason
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KM4SII
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Posts: 240




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« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2017, 03:17:55 PM »

And on the subject of cluster stalking: I watch the cluster, but also tune a lot. Since I have a small station and 100w, once someone gets spotted, it is usually a lot harder for me to get through to them. I try to find and work them before the "packet-pileup" starts.

73 de KM4SII - Mason
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N2SR
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Posts: 631




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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2017, 05:56:51 PM »

Self spotting in a contest is usually illegal. 

Self spotting anytime else?   IMHO, go for it.  My logging program filters out spots that I do not need.
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If no one is doing it that way, there is a probably a very good reason.
WO7R
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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2017, 06:24:53 PM »

If you are on CW or RTTY, reverse beacon net spots you anyway.

This is only a discussion for SSB in 2017.
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N2SR
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Posts: 631




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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2017, 06:40:07 PM »


This is only a discussion for SSB in 2017.


Why?  Because no one who operates CW or RTTY self spots in 2017? 

Were they no doing it in 2016, 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2011, 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, 2000, 1999, 1998, 1997, 1996, 1995, 1994, 1993, 1992, 1991, 1990, 1989, 1988, 1987, 1986, 1985, 1984.....  ?

Will they not self spot in 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028, 2029, 2030, 2031, 2032.... ?

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If no one is doing it that way, there is a probably a very good reason.
AA6YQ
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2017, 06:45:31 PM »

Unless you're in a contest, there's nothing wrong with self-spotting; I've done so many times as 8P9RY over the years.

The issue is not necessarily that ops aren't tuning around; they may be tuning around on other bands in search of other stations.

Successfully chasing cluster spots for semi-rare or rare entities generally requires a quick QSY, an antenna with gain, and QRO; if you don't make the QSL before the hordes arrive on frequency, it's a slugfest.

In combination with beacon monitoring and propagation prediction, spots help identify what bands are open to where, letting you focus your tuning on frequencies likely to be productive, given the objectives you are pursuing.
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N5VYS
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Posts: 1114




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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2017, 07:16:37 PM »

I don't troll much anymore. More like a S&P guy.

Band modes!

Obie N5VYS
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WO7R
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Posts: 2506




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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2017, 07:32:38 PM »

Quote
Why?  Because no one who operates CW or RTTY self spots in 2017?  

No, because it's not terribly relevant whether they do so or not.  If you or I or anyone else gets on and call CQ on RTTY, PSK31, or CW, the Reverse Beacon Net (RBN) will spot you.  That is, there will be an entry made, in real time, by however many stations on the network heard you.  So, usually, more than one.  Maybe if you are very remote, not.  But usually, yes.

Now, unless your location is incredibly boring, a lot of sources that monitor the RBN will take that set of spots (suitably filtered, presumably) and put it on the cluster.  Even if no one does that, the RBN itself is just another kind of cluster.  You self-spot there by simply calling CQ.  Thousands of hams, or at least those smart enough to use it, will see your CQ (aka spot) whether you wish it so or not.  And, if you're interesting, somebody is going to find your CQ rolling through their filter and put it on the cluster, often automatically.
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K4HB
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Posts: 232




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« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2017, 07:39:07 PM »

Let's face it, those of us in the US are low on the totem pole when it comes to sought after DX. And New Jersey nor my state (GA) are nowhere near the hardest states to work. If this wasn't the case, you would have been spotted and had a pileup going on already. I don't believe people didn't respond to your CQ because most everyone was watching the cluster and not tuning. I'll bet many heard you and kept tuning. You said yourself you know you were heard, so you can't blame the cluster for them not responding.

Some people may watch the cluster and not bother to tune. And there's some who may tune and don't bother with the cluster. I'm with the group who does both, because I figure my chances are better that way to find the stations I want to work. I'm not a rag chewer, so I go mostly for awards and stations I need. But I do occasionally contact a station for conversation. Here in the real world, we'll all find people we can connect with and those we can't. It's the same way over the air.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that those who respond to your CQ are mostly the ones who just want to talk, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And you have a nice prefix for those who are WPX participants.
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VE3VEE
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Posts: 1158




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« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2017, 02:43:47 AM »


I made the mistake of self-spotting a few times and received an email telling me that it was frowned upon to self-spot and that I should not do it.


I don't mind when people self-spot (unless in contests where it is against the contest rules).

What I do not like is when people try to mislead others to come to their frequency by NOT spotting their own call sign, but rather the call sign of a DX they are in a QSO with.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

When I see KM4SII spotting KM4SII, that's perfectly fine with me because I can see who is on the frequency and I can see who spotted it. If I don't wish to see self-spots, my software allows me to filter them out. However, when I see some WA1xxx spotting some DX, and I come to the frequency only to find out the frequency belongs to the WA1xxx station, that's definitely NOT OK. That's misleading and it wastes everybody's time.

Marvin VE3VEE
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 02:48:01 AM by VE3VEE » Logged
VA3VF
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Posts: 760




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« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2017, 07:39:34 AM »

...and of course I won't self spot..

I guess it's just the nature of people being lazy,

Why not? Unless you are actively participating in a contest. Actively meaning, submitting a non-checklog entry, and eligible for an award and/or trophy.

As for laziness, that's a touchy subject.  Grin It's part of it, but a cluster scan saves a lot of time and ringing in the ear, no matter how limited that is.
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N3QE
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Posts: 4874




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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2017, 03:46:15 AM »

I made the mistake of self-spotting a few times and received an email telling me that it was frowned upon to self-spot and that I should not do it.

I think the only times self spotting is okay is:

- When a band often dead is open but few realize it
- If you are rare DX but are not getting a pile-up after calling CQ for a while
- Or if you are calling CQ on a more unusual, not frequently used mode...

Just my opinion on the subject  Smiley

73 de KM4SII - Mason

Outside a contest (where self-spotting is verboten), I see no problem with self-spotting.

Of course on CW and RTTY, we have reversebeacon that means that self-spotting is hardly necessary.

The self-appointed spotting-network police come up with all sorts of crazy rules (including "don't spot it unless it is rare DX" and "don't spot US CQ'ers") that seem awful upper-crust-honor-roll centric.
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NK7Z
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« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2017, 04:20:45 AM »

I spot for others...  If I see a DX station I think is useful to someone else, I spot it.  I would hope others do this as well...
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Thanks,
Dave
For reviews and setups see: http://www.nk7z.net
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