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Author Topic: Why such animosity towards volunteers  (Read 11955 times)
KK4GGL
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Posts: 1293




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« on: September 23, 2017, 01:58:40 PM »

I have noticed there a number of hams here that not only seem to take great glee in that hams may not be needed quite as much to help with emergency communications, but actually deride them for doing so.

I don't understand. Deriding people for trying to help others.
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73,
Rick KK4GGL
NA4IT
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« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2017, 03:38:54 PM »

It's not just ham radio. I am a chaplain and serve with Southern Baptist Disaster Relief and am coordinator for a ramp building group.One of my friends says "If it didn't pay anything I wouldn't do it."

I will say this, what time I volunteered in ham radio EMCOMM, I did it for the citizens, not the agency. I volunteered for the agency, I served the citizens.
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W8JX
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2017, 06:01:55 AM »

I have noticed there a number of hams here that not only seem to take great glee in that hams may not be needed quite as much to help with emergency communications, but actually deride them for doing so.

I don't understand. Deriding people for trying to help others.

Its not about depending on other people, its about trying to sell a service that is not needed. They same technology that provides no brainier plug and play modern ham gear has done same for two way commercial gear and cellular too. And while cell towers can be damaged in storms, the major carriers have temporary portable ones that can be pressed into service to fill the holes.
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
KK4GGL
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Posts: 1293




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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2017, 07:06:44 AM »

I have noticed there a number of hams here that not only seem to take great glee in that hams may not be needed quite as much to help with emergency communications, but actually deride them for doing so.

I don't understand. Deriding people for trying to help others.

Its not about depending on other people, its about trying to sell a service that is not needed.
Which is why volunteer there were hams working in EOCs and shelters all over Florida last October and this past September.
It's why calls went out for hams to help with/in Puerto Rico.
It's why hams help with races/walks/events across the country.
They same technology that provides no brainier plug and play modern ham gear has done same for two way commercial gear and cellular too. And while cell towers can be damaged in storms, the major carriers have temporary portable ones that can be pressed into service to fill the holes.
See above.
Your "explanation" does not explain why there is such animosity towards the volunteers.
Your "explanation" does not explained why people are derided for helping.
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73,
Rick KK4GGL
KC2MMI
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Posts: 812




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« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2017, 09:07:26 AM »

"And while cell towers can be damaged in storms, the major carriers have temporary portable ones that can be pressed into service to fill the holes. "
 Yes, and after the winds and rains have stopped and the streets have been cleared to allow safe passage, those COWS will be trucked in to where they are most needed. Leaving a 24-36 hour outage or longer, at best. I think it was more like 4-5 days in the Keys after Irma.
 Versus ham radio, where the hams are often residents of the area and able to continue operating without waiting for those clearances and transport.
 Versus "commercial" radio like Part90C, where you first have to co-ordinate users with equipment that can't be field programmed, has a limited number of units allowed per license, and intentionally doesn't share frequencies with anyone else in the area. Ooops, that ain't gonna work.

 Ham radio won't be The Great Savior, but it can be damned handy. As of yesterday the governor of Puerto Rico still had no communications with 1/2 of the municipalities there. One ham operator is enough to get a message out saying "We don't need help, send the assets where they are needed" or "The dam is failing, evacuate everyone downriver." They're just lucky, they do in fact have communications at the failing dam. Not so lucky in trying to reach the 70,000? living downstream of it.

 Emergency managers don't want to hear "The cell phones will be back up in 24 hours" they want to have immediate communications. Ham radio beats nothing. Hams work cheap.
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ONAIR
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« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2017, 03:08:11 PM »

In certain areas after hurricane Sandy hit, electrical power, cellphone service, internet and landlines were down for almost a week!  The only ones still communicating in those areas, were the hams and CBers.
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KK4GGL
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« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2017, 04:45:43 PM »

In certain areas after hurricane Sandy hit, electrical power, cellphone service, internet and landlines were down for almost a week!  The only ones still communicating in those areas, were the hams and CBers.

I imagine the many/most of the hams took part in organized volunteer organizations. The rest of the hams and CBers "just volunteered".

Why do other hams denigrate them?
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73,
Rick KK4GGL
W7ASA
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Posts: 454




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« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2017, 10:12:57 PM »

Roads are blocked and/or washed away, most areas are still grid down along the central hurricane track and the electrical systems are reported to be in such a twisted mess, that getting the power ON is very unlikely and very dangerous.


To get supplies, fuel, a hundred 'temporary' cell towers in and a constant supply of fuel for those generators - not a reality.  What is working -so far- is the few hams who could string up "an odd bit of wire" and get on the air with improvised power sources like car batteries and etc.  That is working. Information is in very short supply from the worst hit areas.  Just traveling even short distances is reported to be dangerous and will be for the forseeable future, especially into outlying areas. ( In a much less dangerous, post hurricane situation in USA, I  used local VHF for a medical related call to get the information needed, but to shelter in place and avoid traveling on unsafe roads. )

When there is a small hole in a cell network and a small disruption of power - sure, fix it and it's business as usual: cells are great.  This is not that kind of emergency. This is entire islands with no electricity, few standing power poles, and most of those are listing heavily, no standing towers. Many places are only reachable by boat and helicopter.

HF NVIS and medium range HF to areas not hit as hard is likely priceless.

>Ray ..._  ._

The big killer is likely to be disease from human waste -v- drinking water, if they cannot get potable water and sanitation handled very very quickly.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 10:25:02 PM by W7ASA » Logged
W8JX
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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2017, 05:07:37 AM »

Your "explanation" does not explain why there is such animosity towards the volunteers.
Your "explanation" does not explained why people are derided for helping.

Why do you need help with a third party to do something that can easily be done without them via modern technology. There was a time when this stuff was not plug and play and hams had technical ability to make it all work (I have helped with this a few decades ago and further back) but now it is all plug and play and the modern CB/Ham have not more technical ability than average user that can use a commercial HT, base unit or mobile so need is limited.
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Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
AA4PB
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Posts: 14327




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« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2017, 11:42:48 AM »

Take a look at that picture again. I don't see much "plug and play", do you Grin  Hand the average person in that situation an HF radio and a spool of antenna wire and he won't have a clue what to do to make contact.
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Bob  AA4PB
Garrisonville, VA
KK4GGL
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Posts: 1293




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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2017, 12:56:38 PM »

Your "explanation" does not explain why there is such animosity towards the volunteers.
Your "explanation" does not explained why people are derided for helping.

Why do you need help with a third party to do something that can easily be done without them via modern technology. There was a time when this stuff was not plug and play and hams had technical ability to make it all work (I have helped with this a few decades ago and further back) but now it is all plug and play and the modern CB/Ham have not more technical ability than average user that can use a commercial HT, base unit or mobile so need is limited.
Ask the Red Cross:
http://qrznow.com/50-ham-radio-operators-needed-for-red-cross-mobilization-in-puerto-rico/

Your "explanation" does not explain why there is such animosity towards the volunteers.
Your "explanation" does not explained why people are derided for helping.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 12:59:04 PM by KK4GGL » Logged

73,
Rick KK4GGL
N9AOP
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Posts: 641




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« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2017, 02:16:08 PM »

Rick,
You do know that it is easy to be an armchair quarterback, don't you?  Hams are still needed although not as they were in 1990.  To be useful they have to serve where they add value and that depends upon the type of incident and locale.   The issue I see in my local area is that hams are willing to jump into the middle of the disaster but are not willing to be a part of some semi-annual exercise that trains them in just where they can serve best and add value.  That in itself renders them almost useless.
Art
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W7ASA
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Posts: 454




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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2017, 06:37:30 PM »

There are many ways to serve people in stricken areas using ham radio.  Yes - it can be a slot in an 'served agency' budget, but that is only one way.  In many of the articles about hams helping after this most recent Caribbean catastrophe, it was often health & welfare 'I am OK' messages, which can mean everything to those who receive them.  That alone is worth the time and effort.   When all infrastructure based communications are down, 'ancient technology' still beats walking.

That was the case here in The West during last year's huge wildfires which cut-off entire communities and often the city officials who remaind and fire fighters themselves were cut-off from their higher-ups until hams used WINLINK to put them in touch with family and their organization.  Naturally, there was nothing in the usual magazine about it, because it had zero to do with Newington. Homs do this far more often than ever shows-up in media.

It's something to consider, that served agencies are only a small part of community support.


73 de Ray  ..._  ._
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ONAIR
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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2017, 11:36:25 PM »

In certain areas after hurricane Sandy hit, electrical power, cellphone service, internet and landlines were down for almost a week!  The only ones still communicating in those areas, were the hams and CBers.

I imagine the many/most of the hams took part in organized volunteer organizations. The rest of the hams and CBers "just volunteered".

Why do other hams denigrate them?

  In disasters of such magnitude, sometimes "just volunteering" is all that one can do!  During Sandy, I remember hearing about an individual who was injured by a fallen tree limb.  Luckily his neighbor had a CB radio, and was able to contact a trucker who then relayed a call for help to emergency personnel.
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W4KYR
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Posts: 1580




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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2017, 05:07:54 AM »

In certain areas after hurricane Sandy hit, electrical power, cellphone service, internet and landlines were down for almost a week!  The only ones still communicating in those areas, were the hams and CBers.

I imagine the many/most of the hams took part in organized volunteer organizations. The rest of the hams and CBers "just volunteered".

Why do other hams denigrate them?

  In disasters of such magnitude, sometimes "just volunteering" is all that one can do!  During Sandy, I remember hearing about an individual who was injured by a fallen tree limb.  Luckily his neighbor had a CB radio, and was able to contact a trucker who then relayed a call for help to emergency personnel.

I was watching coverage of hurricane Sandy at the time and noted that people were actually asking the news crews for the news and updates because they had no way to get information and here they were.... less than a dozen or so miles away from New York City!

The problem? Well, their power was out and the cell towers were down. Their iPads, iPhones and Smart Phones were rendered useless and became nothing more than glorified paperweights at that point. They could not get to their cars and listen to their car radios because their vehicles were flooded out or inaccessible.

Many of them were so accustomed to using their modern appliances, few thought ahead to have an old fashioned battery powered AM/FM radio and even fewer had CB or ham radio. Those that did have those 'ancient' technologies were the lucky ones and kept in touch.

Modern technology is certainly wonderful, that is...when it works...

P.S. Look at my signature...

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