Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

donate to eham
   Home   Help Search  
Pages: Prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 Next   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Why such animosity towards volunteers  (Read 11877 times)
KB8GAE
Member

Posts: 218




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2017, 06:36:45 AM »


Its not about depending on other people, its about trying to sell a service that is not needed. They same technology that provides no brainier plug and play modern ham gear has done same for two way commercial gear and cellular too. And while cell towers can be damaged in storms, the major carriers have temporary portable ones that can be pressed into service to fill the holes.

Here is a link about Ham Radio and Maria.

http://www.arrl.org/news/amateur-radio-volunteers-aiding-storm-ravaged-puerto-rico-us-virgin-islands

Hopefully someone can let the Utility companies know about all they portable cell phone towers that are up and running so hams don't have to provide unneeded services.

Rich  KB8GAE 
Logged
W8JX
Member

Posts: 12080




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2017, 06:54:08 AM »


The problem? Well, their power was out and the cell towers were down. Their iPads, iPhones and Smart Phones were rendered useless and became nothing more than glorified paperweights at that point.


Cellular providers have self powered portable tower that can be deployed in hours after storm if need be. Cell service can be restored quicker than you think. Also if storm is bad enough to take out commercial business band repeaters, Ham one will be gone too. 30 years ago there was no cheap, easy to use and reliable portable VHF/UHF available. Not case today.
Logged

--------------------------------------
Ham since 1969....  Old School 20wpm REAL Extra Class..
W6EM
Member

Posts: 1641




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2017, 07:24:42 AM »


The problem? Well, their power was out and the cell towers were down. Their iPads, iPhones and Smart Phones were rendered useless and became nothing more than glorified paperweights at that point.


Cellular providers have self powered portable tower that can be deployed in hours after storm if need be. Cell service can be restored quicker than you think. Also if storm is bad enough to take out commercial business band repeaters, Ham one will be gone too. 30 years ago there was no cheap, easy to use and reliable portable VHF/UHF available. Not case today.

Here's an example, John, where you are wrong.  Dead wrong.  Oh, sure repeaters are gone, but smellular is wiped clean.  As is most of the above-ground wire and fiber structure needed for the smellular wheelies to operate.  And, those portables all need fuel supply as no power and won't be probably for at least several weeks if the island's generation is operable.  Transmission towers can be replaced by poles......lots of them.

Per ARRL/ARC appeal yesterday:

  "The American Red Cross (ARC) has asked ARRL for assistance with relief efforts in Puerto Rico. In the nearly 75-year relationship between ARRL and ARC, this is the first time ARC has made a request for assistance on this scale. Hurricane Maria has devastated the island’s communications infrastructure. Without electricity and telephone, and with most of the cell sites out of service, millions of people are cut off from communicating. Shelters are unable to reach local emergency services and people cannot check on the welfare of their loved ones. The situation is dire.

How can you help?

1)    Volunteer. ARC needs up to 50 radio amateurs who can help record, enter, and submit disaster-survivor information into the ARC Safe and Well system. There are very specific requirements and qualifications needed for this deployment; for instance, familiarity with Winlink, an Amateur Radio license of General class or higher, and previous experience in disaster response. Deployment will be for up to 3 weeks (at ARC expense). If you would like to be considered for deployment, please complete the following online ARRL form, which asks for your qualifications and skills: Volunteer Deployment Form..."



Now granted, I'm no fan of WINLINK, but if that's what they want most of us needn't apply.
It would seem to me that fewer Winlinkers and more boots on the ground to ride with LEOs, military, etc., would be what's really needed, rather than database fiddlers.  Then again, it's the Red Cross who's asking.

****Latest****  ARRL says that they now have enough volunteers....

73.

Lee


« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 07:44:47 AM by W6EM » Logged
KK4GGL
Member

Posts: 1293




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2017, 11:12:39 AM »

Rick,
You do know that it is easy to be an armchair quarterback, don't you?  Hams are still needed although not as they were in 1990.  To be useful they have to serve where they add value and that depends upon the type of incident and locale.   The issue I see in my local area is that hams are willing to jump into the middle of the disaster but are not willing to be a part of some semi-annual exercise that trains them in just where they can serve best and add value.  That in itself renders them almost useless.
Art
So don't use them.
Logged

73,
Rick KK4GGL
KK4GGL
Member

Posts: 1293




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2017, 11:15:07 AM »


The problem? Well, their power was out and the cell towers were down. Their iPads, iPhones and Smart Phones were rendered useless and became nothing more than glorified paperweights at that point.


Cellular providers have self powered portable tower that can be deployed in hours after storm if need be. Cell service can be restored quicker than you think. Also if storm is bad enough to take out commercial business band repeaters, Ham one will be gone too. 30 years ago there was no cheap, easy to use and reliable portable VHF/UHF available. Not case today.
So ... how many portable cell towers are up and running in Puerto Rico? How much coverage?

And none of that answers my question of why people who volunteer are denigrated.
Logged

73,
Rick KK4GGL
KS2G
Member

Posts: 731




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2017, 11:54:49 AM »

A previous post mentioned this, but here's the full story.

Amateur Radio’s Force of Fifty Answers the Red Cross Call in Puerto Rico
http://www.arrl.org/news/amateur-radio-s-force-of-fifty-answers-the-red-cross-call-in-puerto-rico
Logged
W6EM
Member

Posts: 1641




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2017, 03:57:07 PM »

It's not just ham radio. I am a chaplain and serve with Southern Baptist Disaster Relief and am coordinator for a ramp building group.One of my friends says "If it didn't pay anything I wouldn't do it."

I will say this, what time I volunteered in ham radio EMCOMM, I did it for the citizens, not the agency. I volunteered for the agency, I served the citizens.
Thank you and all of those who serve with SBDR.  I watched and heard the activity during Hurricanes Charlie and Katrina.  And, assume SBDR has been active in the wake of Harvey and Irma.  Perhaps Maria as well.

A fine mission, and one that I can proudly say I have donated to on several occasions.....and not just $5 in a bucket.

Serving hot meals to those homeless from disasters is one great mission.
Logged
K2CMH
Member

Posts: 321




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2017, 03:57:44 PM »

I have a question regarding the COWs, (Cellular on Wheels).   So if they deploy those in an area like PR that has no existing infrastructure (no fiber, no copper), how do they connect them to the phone network?

Also, if you have a bunch of these COWs, can they talk to each other to switch 'local' calls or do they have to be connected to some kind of main switch?
Logged
WA7PRC
Member

Posts: 1835


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2017, 01:43:51 AM »

I have a question regarding the COWs, (Cellular on Wheels).   So if they deploy those in an area like PR that has no existing infrastructure (no fiber, no copper), how do they connect them to the phone network?

Also, if you have a bunch of these COWs, can they talk to each other to switch 'local' calls or do they have to be connected to some kind of main switch?

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_cell_sites#Cell_on_wheels:
      "The backhaul to the network can be via terrestrial microwave, communication satellite, or existing wired infrastructure."

In a past life, I worked trunking and microwave radio maintenance for a major TELCO. Later, I worked for a company that manufactured 23- and 38-GHz point-point digital radio systems. These PCM systems (thousands of voice channels per link) can be quickly deployed and easily interfaced. Satellite links make it possible where there is no LOS (Line Of Sight) between two points.
Logged
K2CMH
Member

Posts: 321




Ignore
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2017, 05:42:08 AM »

Thanks for the info.  So I guess in the case of PR, it would probably be satellite since it sounds like all of their ground based infrastructure is gone.
Logged
KC4ZGP
Member

Posts: 1637




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2017, 07:13:39 AM »


So they need electricity and not anything else.

Let's send them a bunch of old car batteries.

And since Puerto Rico isn't a state, FEMA need tend to other issues.

They're on their own.

Kraus
Logged
W6EM
Member

Posts: 1641




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2017, 08:22:58 AM »

I have a question regarding the COWs, (Cellular on Wheels).   So if they deploy those in an area like PR that has no existing infrastructure (no fiber, no copper), how do they connect them to the phone network?

Also, if you have a bunch of these COWs, can they talk to each other to switch 'local' calls or do they have to be connected to some kind of main switch?

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_cell_sites#Cell_on_wheels:
      "The backhaul to the network can be via terrestrial microwave, communication satellite, or existing wired infrastructure."

In a past life, I worked trunking and microwave radio maintenance for a major TELCO. Later, I worked for a company that manufactured 23- and 38-GHz point-point digital radio systems. These PCM systems (thousands of voice channels per link) can be quickly deployed and easily interfaced. Satellite links make it possible where there is no LOS (Line Of Sight) between two points.
I didn't see any COWs in the Wiki posting that were solar powered.  Pump-up or crank-up towers to 20m or about 60 feet.  Even those don't work if they're not there in great numbers since limited coverage and apparently only satellite connections feasible at this point. Telco wire centers must have dead batteries and non-running gen sets by now due to fuel exhaustion.

No diesel or gasoline (yet) other than a sparse amount allocated to hospital gen sets, so COWs wouldn't work for very long without refueling.  Per the mayor of San Juan on TV last night.  Diesel being delivered to hospitals under armed guard.  One hospital's gen set didn't get fuel in time and two people on life-support died.

So, all this while "El Naranjo" in Washington kipes national attention arguing with NFL players  protesting him instead of being an effective leader.  We have (had) a big amphibious assault ship not far away at the USVI.  We have lots of carriers, C-17s, C-5As and KC-135s.  Why weren't they bringing in diesel?

Chevron Pascagoula is the largest refinery east of the Mississippi River on the Gulf, near the AL state line.  At this late date, even barge loads could well have arrived in PR by now.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 08:30:52 AM by W6EM » Logged
KK4GGL
Member

Posts: 1293




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2017, 09:25:28 AM »


So they need electricity and not anything else.

Let's send them a bunch of old car batteries.

And since Puerto Rico isn't a state, FEMA need tend to other issues.

They're on their own.

Kraus

Really?
Puerto Rico is a US territory.
Puerto Rican residents are US citizens.
The island is devastated.
They need a hell of a lot more than batteries.
Logged

73,
Rick KK4GGL
KF7CG
Member

Posts: 1192




Ignore
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2017, 10:54:29 AM »

W6EM if you had listened to the news, you would know that most of the port infrastructure in Puerto Rico was taken out by the hurricanes. Many of the smaller ports around the coast were totally unusable. Kind of hard to barge in fuel when you can't pump it. Mass airlift of supplies ongoing there but not much available in the way of aircraft facilities either.

Around San Juan, things will get better faster. In the countryside there will be delays in even getting enough infrastructure to start building infrastructure.

Why is there so much animosity toward volunteers? Simple, guilt. The animosity comes from people who don't want to be involved and are made to feel ashamed by those who do offer some help even if just a little. If you are feeling bad because you didn't help and somebody else did; make their helping worse than just staying away.

KF7CG
Logged
W6EM
Member

Posts: 1641




Ignore
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2017, 03:30:12 PM »

W6EM if you had listened to the news, you would know that most of the port infrastructure in Puerto Rico was taken out by the hurricanes. Many of the smaller ports around the coast were totally unusable. Kind of hard to barge in fuel when you can't pump it. Mass airlift of supplies ongoing there but not much available in the way of aircraft facilities either.
Every heard of flexible hoses, like are used to extend from deeper waters?
Amphibious assault ships don't need harbors.  That was my point in mentioning in the earlier post.  Airport runways may have been covered with debris, but hard to imagine how they couldn't be quickly cleared.  Control towers aren't needed if only military heavies.
Quote

Around San Juan, things will get better faster. In the countryside there will be delays in even getting enough infrastructure to start building infrastructure.

All a matter of coordinating logistics, which FEMA should have been doing as the Hurricane came ashore.....  A miserable failure.  If Fugate and his team were still in charge, things would be different.
Logged
Pages: Prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 Next   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!