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Author Topic: S. 1534 Amateur Radio Parity Act pulled from Subcommittee markup  (Read 7793 times)
K4FMH
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Posts: 425




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« on: October 07, 2017, 08:23:16 AM »

This past Wednesday, S. 1534 was being put up for official consideration by the Senate Subcommittee chaired by Sen Roger Wicker (R-MS), but was pulled late on Tuesday. There were two reasons. One, Sen Nelson (D-FL) proposed an additional, more restrictive, Amendment. Two, I requested to Sen Wicker that the “prior HOA approval” of any antennas be removed from the current version as agreed to by the CAI and ARRL negotiators.

Last Saturday at the MFJ 45th Anniversary Celebration in Starkville, I met with ARRL President Roderick on ARPA. He was made aware of the myopia that the current League negotiation team of Liscenco and Imlay appear to have regarding the concessions made to produce the latest version of S. 1534. The League’s position that other legitimate legal views on HOA behavior, such as those covered in a recent HamRadioNow podcast, amount to misinformation was confirmed in my conversation with President Roderick. He did not seem very interested in the views of others outside of his League team. Bear in mind, I was an Assistant Director of the Delta Division when I got ARPA submitted by my Senator. Such a response by League leadership is candidly disappointing to this Life Member and former field staff volunteer.

When I alerted President Roderick and Delta Division Director Norris that this was pulled, the response was that the League will regroup on ARPA. I do hope that this reassessment will involve a less insular approach through the involvement of knowledgeable and strategic hams who can assist in creating a politically stronger approach to serving HOA-resident amateur operators and ham radio at large.
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K1ZJH
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Posts: 3299




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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2017, 09:32:39 AM »

If the CAI agreed to the new wording, what is Nelson's concern going forward?

Thanks for you efforts so far.  Sometimes I fear the ARRL is its own worst enemy, but we go to battle
with the army we have...
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KN6SD
Member

Posts: 151




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« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2017, 09:21:34 AM »

K4FMH,

I posted the following on another thread:

As long as ARPA is ARPA and only benefits hams, I don't believe it will get through Congress. What is needed is a "Homeowners Bill of Rights" that severely limits what restrictions a Seller can place on a Single Family Residence.. Any private restrictions that are allowed to run with the land should only deal with Utilities Access/Easements and Common Right-of-Way issues.

Now, for all of you HOA lovers out there. If a Seller puts an HOA in place as he/she completes the development, the HOA must be reaffirmed by 60% of the homeowners every 7 years. NO MORE 30 year commitments placed on unsuspecting homeowners..

It's time to stop treating the symptoms, and deal with the root of the problem. The problem modern homeowners are facing is CC&R's are being used as a Legislative tool that circumvents the State & Federal Constitutional protections most of us assume always apply. Everyone's Rights and Government Privileges (Ham Radio) are being CC&R'd away from us.   

Your home should be your castle. Ham radio is one of many things new homeowners should have the right to enjoy.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe ARRL should join forces with other pro-property rights groups to get something passed that deals with these Private Governments..

What's next on the CC&R list of restrictions??? NO Firearm ownership allowed in your new home???
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K4FMH
Member

Posts: 425




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« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2017, 03:29:55 PM »

KN6SD,

You have valid points. However, based upon my lobbying experience, conducting professional surveys on policy issues, and what I have learned about property rights, I think getting what you call the fundamental underlying issue would be about like health care. There’s a whole lot more at stake, in terms of political groups, at a comprehensive property rights reform. You probably don’t agree, given your post.

On ARPA, remember is is only Sen Nelson in Florida who stands in the way of S. 1534 at this point. The CAI doesn’t have another Senator on the Subcommittee in their pocket. I’ve said before, the League’s cattle call for everyone to call/write his or her Senator was wasted bandwidth. Only Florida’s hams should’ve been mobilized to call Sen Nelson’s Office. Nelson stands for election next year. Reports are that Gov Scott (R) will run against him. Getting Scott to talk about the recent (and past) value of amateur radio communications during storms, floods, and other emergencies now is a soft point for Nelson. This is standard lobbying action. But the League never consulted anyone else about this. There is also nothing as of last week that Sen Nelson wants for a political quid pro quo.

These are just my thoughts. I do not disagree with your statements in terms of their accuracy. I just do not think it’s the wagon that the spirit of ARPA can be hitched to in terms of legislation. Reauthorizing the FCC was such a wagon last session as my backup plan but Mr. Liscenco told me by phone that the League did not need my input. If he’s campaigning for ARRL President next round on the presumed leadership he has exhibited on ARPA, as I’ve heard through the grapevine, he may fit right in.

Keep discussing this issue, OM. The lack of transparency by the League on this matter has not served the ham community well.

73,

Frank
K4FMH

K4FMH,

I posted the following on another thread:

As long as ARPA is ARPA and only benefits hams, I don't believe it will get through Congress. What is needed is a "Homeowners Bill of Rights" that severely limits what restrictions a Seller can place on a Single Family Residence.. Any private restrictions that are allowed to run with the land should only deal with Utilities Access/Easements and Common Right-of-Way issues.

Now, for all of you HOA lovers out there. If a Seller puts an HOA in place as he/she completes the development, the HOA must be reaffirmed by 60% of the homeowners every 7 years. NO MORE 30 year commitments placed on unsuspecting homeowners..

It's time to stop treating the symptoms, and deal with the root of the problem. The problem modern homeowners are facing is CC&R's are being used as a Legislative tool that circumvents the State & Federal Constitutional protections most of us assume always apply. Everyone's Rights and Government Privileges (Ham Radio) are being CC&R'd away from us.   

Your home should be your castle. Ham radio is one of many things new homeowners should have the right to enjoy.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe ARRL should join forces with other pro-property rights groups to get something passed that deals with these Private Governments..

What's next on the CC&R list of restrictions??? NO Firearm ownership allowed in your new home???

Logged
KN6SD
Member

Posts: 151




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« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2017, 08:52:43 PM »

To be totally blunt: I hate the whole HOA scam, IMHO its double taxation with very little representation..

No one is saying much, because everyone believes the whole "Property Values B.S." the industry promotes to new homeowners.

Well, let's wait and see how much screaming goes on when these HOA's start going underwater from being underfunded, and all those "Special Assessments" start showing up in mail boxes across America.

If you're in an HOA, you'd better find out how much of a Reserve Fund it has... It is estimated that almost 70% of the HOA's out there have almost NO Reserve Fund. Why, because most Board Members do not know how to run a business, and they don't want to P.O. the Homeowners by raising fees.

Just my 1/2 cents of rant...

73,
Russ
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WB2KSP
Member

Posts: 625




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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2017, 02:05:53 PM »

To be totally blunt: I hate the whole HOA scam, IMHO its double taxation with very little representation..

No one is saying much, because everyone believes the whole "Property Values B.S." the industry promotes to new homeowners.

Well, let's wait and see how much screaming goes on when these HOA's start going underwater from being underfunded, and all those "Special Assessments" start showing up in mail boxes across America.

If you're in an HOA, you'd better find out how much of a Reserve Fund it has... It is estimated that almost 70% of the HOA's out there have almost NO Reserve Fund. Why, because most Board Members do not know how to run a business, and they don't want to P.O. the Homeowners by raising fees.

Just my 1/2 cents of rant...

73,
Russ


Where's the like button. The entire resale value BS is garbage. Home value is determined by demand. I Live in a suburb of NYC and home value here is fairly high compared with much of the country. On the other hand when you compare property value in the NYC area to San Francisco bay it's as though they are giving land away. I typical high ranch in the NY Metro area would be worth between 400 to 600+ dollars. The same home in the San Francisco bay would be worth between 2.5 and over million dollars. HOA's ahve nothing to do with property value.

 All HOA's do is provide services generally provided by your municipality. That's how some areas have such low property taxes. You pay the town a small amount but they provide very few services to the homeowner. You split your costs between the town and the HOA. The problem is that historically the HOA is much more restrictive. We end up with thousands of private governments.
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ONAIR
Member

Posts: 3525




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« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2017, 02:48:50 PM »

To be totally blunt: I hate the whole HOA scam, IMHO its double taxation with very little representation..

No one is saying much, because everyone believes the whole "Property Values B.S." the industry promotes to new homeowners.

Well, let's wait and see how much screaming goes on when these HOA's start going underwater from being underfunded, and all those "Special Assessments" start showing up in mail boxes across America.

If you're in an HOA, you'd better find out how much of a Reserve Fund it has... It is estimated that almost 70% of the HOA's out there have almost NO Reserve Fund. Why, because most Board Members do not know how to run a business, and they don't want to P.O. the Homeowners by raising fees.

Just my 1/2 cents of rant...

73,
Russ
   Interesting.  Well if the HOAs go belly up, I guess these communities will just have to revert to gentleman's agreements among themselves. 
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WB2KSP
Member

Posts: 625




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« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2017, 06:17:48 PM »

To be totally blunt: I hate the whole HOA scam, IMHO its double taxation with very little representation..

No one is saying much, because everyone believes the whole "Property Values B.S." the industry promotes to new homeowners.

Well, let's wait and see how much screaming goes on when these HOA's start going underwater from being underfunded, and all those "Special Assessments" start showing up in mail boxes across America.

If you're in an HOA, you'd better find out how much of a Reserve Fund it has... It is estimated that almost 70% of the HOA's out there have almost NO Reserve Fund. Why, because most Board Members do not know how to run a business, and they don't want to P.O. the Homeowners by raising fees.

Just my 1/2 cents of rant...

73,
Russ
   Interesting.  Well if the HOAs go belly up, I guess these communities will just have to revert to gentleman's agreements among themselves. 

Doesn't work that way. If The HOA is gone and if covenants can be reversed, than zoning reverts to the municipality. I for one am not interested in living communally. If I purchase the land it's mine to do with what I like as long as local zoning laws are followed. HOA's are a relatively recent occurrence (30 years) I don't understand what is happening in our country. Ham radio is a hobby which hurts no one. I have read comparisons made with those who breed livestock (Talk about a stretch) It amazes me how quickly we as a country are willing to give up our freedoms.
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K4FMH
Member

Posts: 425




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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2017, 06:18:42 AM »

GM OM,

This isn’t personal...just a bit of evidence from my non-ham professional life.

The objective (e.g., based not upon ad hoc observations but large systematic data and analysis) research shows n the relationship between HOAs and property values is mixed. There are various reasons. Some conflate HOAs and Neighborhood Associations. They are organized and generally operated differently. Here’s one example peer-reviewed article showing the positive effect of HOA effects n property values but no effect by NAs:

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1078087414542088

A study of Florida specifically has mixed results: https://www.ntanet.org/wp-content/uploads/proceedings/2014/024-cheung-meltzer-homeowners-associations-affect-housing-affordability.pdf

Even though the results are mixed in these two peer-reviewed studies, they are based on systematic objective data and not B.S.

73,

Frank
K4FMH

No one is saying much, because everyone believes the whole "Property Values B.S." the industry promotes to new homeowners.

Well, let's wait and see how much screaming goes on when these HOA's start going underwater from being underfunded, and all those "Special Assessments" start showing up in mail boxes across America.

If you're in an HOA, you'd better find out how much of a Reserve Fund it has... It is estimated that almost 70% of the HOA's out there have almost NO Reserve Fund. Why, because most Board Members do not know how to run a business, and they don't want to P.O. the Homeowners by raising fees.

Just my 1/2 cents of rant...

73,
Russ
[/quote]


Where's the like button. The entire resale value BS is garbage. Home value is determined by demand. I Live in a suburb of NYC and home value here is fairly high compared with much of the country. On the other hand when you compare property value in the NYC area to San Francisco bay it's as though they are giving land away. I typical high ranch in the NY Metro area would be worth between 400 to 600+ dollars. The same home in the San Francisco bay would be worth between 2.5 and over million dollars. HOA's ahve nothing to do with property value.

 All HOA's do is provide services generally provided by your municipality. That's how some areas have such low property taxes. You pay the town a small amount but they provide very few services to the homeowner. You split your costs between the town and the HOA. The problem is that historically the HOA is much more restrictive. We end up with thousands of private governments.
[/quote]
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WS4E
Member

Posts: 339




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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2017, 10:49:38 AM »


Where's the like button. The entire resale value BS is garbage....HOA's have nothing to do with property value.


ACTUALLY, HOA's do have something to do with property value.  They make it LOWER.

The latest trend in real estate listings is to highlight properties as "NO HOA!!" as a major selling point in the listing when possible.  There is a significant demand out there growing for non-HOA encumbered properties.  We are reaching the point where enough people at this point have lived with an HOA, to know they never want to do so again if they can avoid it.  When HOA's were new over the last 30 years or so, not enough people knew what they were getting into to know better so they purchased properties with HOA's anyway.

But, my prediction is in the near future HOA properties will be less valuable as the buying public wakes up the fact that one property with an HOA has less value due to less freedom with your property, than an exact same property that has no HOA and has more value due to being less restricted.

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WB2KSP
Member

Posts: 625




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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2017, 01:29:28 PM »


Where's the like button. The entire resale value BS is garbage....HOA's have nothing to do with property value.


ACTUALLY, HOA's do have something to do with property value.  They make it LOWER.

The latest trend in real estate listings is to highlight properties as "NO HOA!!" as a major selling point in the listing when possible.  There is a significant demand out there growing for non-HOA encumbered properties.  We are reaching the point where enough people at this point have lived with an HOA, to know they never want to do so again if they can avoid it.  When HOA's were new over the last 30 years or so, not enough people knew what they were getting into to know better so they purchased properties with HOA's anyway.

But, my prediction is in the near future HOA properties will be less valuable as the buying public wakes up the fact that one property with an HOA has less value due to less freedom with your property, than an exact same property that has no HOA and has more value due to being less restricted.



This makes sense to me. If I wanted to live in a an apartment or a condo high rise where neighbors are one wall away and you end up sharing a building, I could understand it. If you live in an HOA you might as well live in an apartment, where all that you have control over is everything within your walls but, please keep the noise down after 10 PM and no parties without getting the permission of the HOA. After all, we can't have anyone parking in your driveway. It upsets the neighbors.
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K4FMH
Member

Posts: 425




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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2017, 02:04:23 PM »

WS4E,

Is this solely your opinion based upon real estate advertising? Or, do you have systematic data leading to that conclusion?

There is a lack of nationwide data. Even the CAI (HOA, Neighborhood Associations, etc.) admits this (See https://foundation.caionline.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/VATech_Property_Values.pdf). Perhaps the best study, rather than one person’s perceptions, is based on Florida’s HOAs because a public sinshine organization has forced the release of all registered HOAs in the state. Here’s the link (https://ideas.repec.org/a/eee/regeco/v46y2014icp93-102.html)  for the full study but here’s the abstract of the findings:

Private homeowners associations (HOAs) levy binding fees and provide local services to members. Both should be capitalized into the value of member properties, but the net effect is ambiguous. We construct the most comprehensive, longitudinal database to date on HOAs for Florida and estimate the impact of HOAs on property values. We find that properties in HOAs sell at a premium just under 5%. The premium is strongest immediately following HOA formation and declines over time, suggesting quick capitalization of HOA benefits. Properties in larger HOAs sell for less, and this is particularly true for properties in the biggest HOAs. Finally, properties located immediately outside of an HOA sell at a premium relative to other non-HOA properties, and this premium marginally decreases (increases) in the size (frequency) of neighboring HOAs.

In addition, another recent systematic study shows that HOAs increase observed property values while Neighborhood Associations do not: https://ideas.repec.org/a/eee/regeco/v46y2014icp93-102.html.

It’s a lot more work to ferret out actual systematic studies that just use views through one’s own personal windshield as evidence. It’s like a ham radio analogy. Would you ever just look at an antenna and tell if the resonance is approximate or would you rely in systematic meter readings? Perhaps there is a role for a gypsy antenna reader but I wouldn’t rely on one!

73,

Frank
K4FMH


Where's the like button. The entire resale value BS is garbage....HOA's have nothing to do with property value.


ACTUALLY, HOA's do have something to do with property value.  They make it LOWER.

The latest trend in real estate listings is to highlight properties as "NO HOA!!" as a major selling point in the listing when possible.  There is a significant demand out there growing for non-HOA encumbered properties.  We are reaching the point where enough people at this point have lived with an HOA, to know they never want to do so again if they can avoid it.  When HOA's were new over the last 30 years or so, not enough people knew what they were getting into to know better so they purchased properties with HOA's anyway.

But, my prediction is in the near future HOA properties will be less valuable as the buying public wakes up the fact that one property with an HOA has less value due to less freedom with your property, than an exact same property that has no HOA and has more value due to being less restricted.


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K7JQ
Member

Posts: 947




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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2017, 03:09:16 PM »


ACTUALLY, HOA's do have something to do with property value.  They make it LOWER.

The latest trend in real estate listings is to highlight properties as "NO HOA!!" as a major selling point in the listing when possible.  There is a significant demand out there growing for non-HOA encumbered properties.  We are reaching the point where enough people at this point have lived with an HOA, to know they never want to do so again if they can avoid it.  When HOA's were new over the last 30 years or so, not enough people knew what they were getting into to know better so they purchased properties with HOA's anyway.

But, my prediction is in the near future HOA properties will be less valuable as the buying public wakes up the fact that one property with an HOA has less value due to less freedom with your property, than an exact same property that has no HOA and has more value due to being less restricted.



ACTUALLY, I think your statement and prediction is based on your opinion, not facts.

A listing that states "NO HOA!!" would make it attractive for those who don't want an HOA, but unattractive for those that do. No different than a home with a pool has no value to a person that doesn't want one. Believe it or not, many people want the benefit of knowing that a community's common areas will be taken care of, and that their neighbor's property will not look like a pigsty.

Generally, if a person or family lives a normal life...considerate to others, and takes pride in the appearance of their property...there will be no conflict between them and the HOA. Not everyone wants to erect antennas, work on their car in the driveway, raise chickens in the backyard, blast music at all hours of the morning, or paint their house with a color that's inconsistent with the community's general aesthetics. IMO, those are the things that lower property values, not the presence of an HOA.

Just my opinion, based on living in three HOA's in the last 25 years, using stealth antennas...never a problem. Each time I sold a house, sizable profits. Current house is now worth double of what I paid. YMMV.
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ND6M
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Posts: 551




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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2017, 11:53:23 AM »

... edit... I purchase the land it's mine to do with what I like as long as local zoning laws are followed...

I'm sure you won't mind when the person next door does the same.
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WB2KSP
Member

Posts: 625




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« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2017, 02:52:03 PM »

I don't mind. If someone can afford to purchase a home in  my neighborhood then I don't see where I have any say in what color they paint their homes or who they use for their landscaping. As long as they don't try to use my land for their purposes, I don't see the problem and I doubt someone who could afford to move into my neighborhood (It's a NY middle class neighborhood) would have cattle grazing on their lawns, although many have dogs.  Why don't you do a Google Earth search for my property. You can even check out my entire street from road level. It's on the internet and you can see how much of an impact my antennas have on my home and on the neighborhood, in general. I've been operating from here for about 7 years and prior to this QTH I had a TH5 on my roof and a vertical in the back yard. No problems with any neighbor, I guess New Yorker's are more tolerant and show more respect for their neighbors than certain other parts of the country, My neighbors homes have been turning over on a regular basis and their homes have been selling for $600,000 and more and they don't stay on the market very long. Imagine if I didn't have my antennas up (They're at 60 to 75 foot at their peak in my trees)?  I want to add that I can operate from 80-6 meters with my antennas. Another addition. With my radio (at 100 watts) and antennas I am at  296 confirmed (worked a new one this morning) and DXCC on 80-10 meters.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 03:00:56 PM by WB2KSP » Logged
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