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Author Topic: When will Canadian Hams get to use 630m? (Legally)  (Read 3171 times)
VE1DAS
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Posts: 6




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« on: October 18, 2017, 10:20:30 AM »

I wonder when us Canadians can get in on the 630m fun? When Canada announced the 630m band in 2014 I decided to build an antenna and begin some testing. Then I noticed that the other long-wave band assigned (137Khz) was listed in the Canadian list of Amateur band assignments BUT NOT 472-479 Khz. I thought this was a little odd, so I contacted the Amateur Service Center and was told it was an "Allocation" but not yet implemented. Fast forward 3 years. I inquire again and I received a letter stating among other things, "Although this allocation has been made, these frequencies have not yet been included in the list of radio frequencies provided in the document RBR-4; Standards for the Operation of Radio Stations in the Amateur Radio Service. Consequently; there is at present, no authority for the use of these frequencies by Canadian Amateur Radio Stations. Canadian Amateur Radio Stations currently using this band are operating without authority, and this matter is being addressed by the Department." I'm guessing for those fellow Canadians that have been operating in the band, it may be a case of not checking the regs or "It's easier to beg forgiveness than ask for permission" hi hi.

73 de VE1DAS
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AA2UK
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Posts: 289




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« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2017, 12:13:57 PM »

I believe it's been legal in Canada before the US could operate. I see at least a half dozen VA & VE's using the band. They aren't using Xperimental calls they use their regular call sign. The ARRL has Canada listed as legal to operate on 630 meters.

From the AARL, Countries now permitting Amateur Radio access to the 630-meter band include Germany, Greece, Malta, Monaco, Norway, Philippines, Czech Republic, Ireland, Switzerland, New Zealand, Finland, Spain, France, Poland, Bulgaria, Canada, Vietnam, Japan, Cayman Islands, Reunion Island, and Hungary. “It appears that more than 100 DXCC entities have permission to operate on 630 meters,” Raab said in his report.

http://www.arrl.org/news/630-meters-becoming-a-mainstream-amateur-band-experiment-coordinator-says

In Canada, amateurs have a secondary allocation from 472 to 479 kHz beginning 1 April 2014. The maximum EIRP is 1W.[15]

Here are a few Canadian stations I know that are on the air perhaps you could email them with your questions & concerns,
VE6WZ, VE6JY, VE7AB, VE7CNF, VE7BDQ, VE6XH, VE3CIO, VE2UG, VA2WW, VO1NA and others....

Bill, AA2UK
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 12:34:20 PM by AA2UK » Logged
AA2UK
Member

Posts: 289




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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2017, 12:36:55 PM »

In addition I found this document,
http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf10759.html#t1

472 - 479   primary service MARITIME MOBILE end primary service 5.79
Amateur 5.80A
5.82
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VE1DAS
Member

Posts: 6




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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017, 01:29:01 PM »

Yes, Bill  you're correct. That link is to the frequency allocations but all of those items have not actually been implemented yet according to Industry Canada. And yes, The ARRL and Canada's own RAC (sort of like the Canadian ARRL) did make band announcements and it was also reported by many others as well. Unfortunately I have a confirmed the email from Industry Canada stating that 472khz-479khz is not an authorized ham band in Canada yet. (oddly enough, 137khz is).

I'm finding it hard to believe however that a number of fellow Canadian hams would operate illegally and that it has continued for 3 years with no questions. Can it be that I'm the only one that checked the actual regulations? Maybe our regulator doesn't really care, and they just had to give me the "by-the-book" answer because I asked.

Maybe if enough Canadian Hams (or all Hams for that matter) ask about 630m, our Canadian bureaucracy will fix this apparent debacle and make an official announcement. I've emailed RAC several times on this topic and they have ignored me as if I'm some sort of nut. Of course, I'm not a member so maybe replies are a perk reserved for members, hi hi.

Maybe some others can shed some light on all of this? Maybe I can ask the ARRL to inquire on behalf of US Hams Wink

I think the confusion comes from the fact that there are TWO lists of frequency tables listed by Industry Canada.

1) The Canadian Table of Frequency Allocations and....
2) RBR-4 — Standards for the Operation of Radio Stations in the Amateur Radio Service

The first one is a list if allocations, the second one is a list frequencies that have made it through the "authorization" phase and that's what counts.

I hate red tape...seems both of our Countries have a fair share hi hi.



73 de VE1DAS

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AA2UK
Member

Posts: 289




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« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2017, 02:06:07 PM »

I couldn't find anything newer than 2015 even on the RAC site. You bring up excellent points I would try and address the question with John KB5NJD he runs a well know website for 2200 and 630 meters.
http://njdtechnologies.net/bio/
Here is a link, you might also try logging into the ON4KST KHZ chat site and ask operators.
http://www.on4kst.com/chat/start.php
Please update the status I really hope you reached a politician that didn't care?
Bill, AA2UK
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VE1DAS
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Posts: 6




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« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2017, 04:41:30 PM »

Bill, Thank u for the link info. I'll post anything I learn.

73
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AA2UK
Member

Posts: 289




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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2017, 06:04:05 PM »

Bill, Thank u for the link info. I'll post anything I learn.

73
I'm told VE7SL can add clarification to the current status try contacting him.
Bill, AA2UK
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AA2UK
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Posts: 289




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« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2017, 10:36:59 AM »

VE1DAS have you gotten the latest on Canadians legally operating on 630 meters?
Bill, AA2UK
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VE1DAS
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Posts: 6




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« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2017, 07:56:12 PM »

Hi Bill,

I followed up with our regulator last week, and asked if/when the Amateur Frequency table (found in a document called RBR-4) would be updated so Canadian stations can transmit. I expressed my concern that some operators have been given word-of-mouth approval, while others are told to wait for authorization. Anyway, I think they are tired of hearing from me hi hi...can you sense that in the email I received and pasted below? (I removed the officers name etc. since this was probably not meant to be shared in a forum)

to:   daryl stevens
date:   Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 12:38 PM
subject:   RE: Amateur Band Allocation Question
mailed-by:   canada.ca

Good morning Mr. Stevens,

I am unaware of any upcoming changes to the RBR-4 nor do I know when, or even if, this band will be opened to the Canadian Amateur community.  The best guidance I could provide would be to review the RBR-4 every few months to see if a new version has been published.

As for your concerns with Canadian Amateurs currently using the 630 meter band, and the misinformation provided by other District Offices, this is something I will investigate further to determine the best way forward in finding a solution.

 

Regards,

 

xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx

 

Spectrum Management Officer, xxxxx and xxxxxx xxxxxxxx District, Spectrum Management Operations Branch

Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada / Government of Canada

xxxxxx.xxxxxx@canada.ca / Tel: 705-941-xxxx / TTY: 1-866-694-xxxx

 

Agent de la Gestion du Spectre, District de xxx et xxxx de xxxxxxxx, Direction générale des opérations de la gestion du spectre

Inovation, Science et Développement Économique Canada / Gouvernement du Canada

xxxxx.xxxxxxxx@canada.ca / Tel: 705-941-xxxx / ATS: 1-866-694-xxxx
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AA2UK
Member

Posts: 289




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« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2017, 02:02:21 PM »

http://www.arrl.org/news/canadian-radio-amateurs-gain-new-472-479-khz-band

Bill, AA2UK
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VE1DAS
Member

Posts: 6




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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2017, 08:45:35 PM »

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the link. Yes that was in May of 2014 but was not correct. The article says "Radio Amateurs of Canada (RAC) announced the “official implementation” of the band today."

RAC has no authority to announce "official implementation". That would be like the ARRL proclaiming a rule change without the FCC saying so.

Unfortunately, the table of frequencies they were referring to is the one that shows current and PROPOSED frequencies but it is not part of the Amateur regulations.

Unfortunately nobody really seems to care about the issue on this side of the border and I'm guessing that includes our government agency if the tone of the email I received is any indication.

I was stupid to have even asked them about the band, because now that I have a letter stating the band is off-limits,  I can't even claim I misunderstood the process. hi hi. 

73, D

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AA2UK
Member

Posts: 289




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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2017, 02:45:31 AM »

New Op's getting on daily from VE land.
Bill, AA2UK
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VE1DAS
Member

Posts: 6




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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2017, 10:33:20 AM »

Unless the government in Ottawa is lying to me, Canadian operators that are transmitting on 630m are doing so illegally.   Other hams in the area have inquired and got the same answer. I noticed that all but two Canadian WSPR stations are on receive only. Maybe it's a coincidence. I can't get an answer from RAC (Canada's version of the ARRL). Email inquiries go unanswered. Probably because I'm not a member. Maybe I'll track down an RAC member and get them to try to find out what is going on.

73,

D
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