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Author Topic: The Best Coax To Use  (Read 3236 times)
KE6EE
Member

Posts: 1846




Ignore
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2017, 09:57:28 PM »

If you want to maximize performance, I'd put the money into a better antenna instead.

The coax really doesn't matter. The antenna really really matters.

Spend a little time learning about antennas and figure out where to put a wire antenna on your property.

You can also buy wire antennas premade.

You seem to have made some decisions about which antenna to buy and where to place it before you have the
know-how to make such decisions. A little reading will take you a long way. Or some searching on this website or on the
net.
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KM6NFF
Member

Posts: 116




Ignore
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2017, 10:32:45 PM »

If you want to maximize performance, I'd put the money into a better antenna instead.

The coax really doesn't matter. The antenna really really matters.

Spend a little time learning about antennas and figure out where to put a wire antenna on your property.

You can also buy wire antennas premade.

You seem to have made some decisions about which antenna to buy and where to place it before you have the



Wire antenna is not an option. Very limited space so the side of my home is the only option. 15' wide and 20'long is my space I can work with
know-how to make such decisions. A little reading will take you a long way. Or some searching on this website or on the
net.
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KD0ZV
Member

Posts: 37




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« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2017, 05:00:57 AM »

Well keep in mind that half of what you read is snake oil marketing.  Seems verticals use a lot of that.

As mentioned above, regardless of what they say, any vertical needs either ground radials or elevated radials. It may work without them but the performance will be hugely degraded without. The earth is the other half of your antenna with a vertical. The earth is very lossy and changes depending on what part of the country you are in.

Since you cant really have wires... I would say elevated radials are out of the question.
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W9IQ
Member

Posts: 1707




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« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2017, 06:11:22 AM »

Quote
As mentioned above, regardless of what they say, any vertical needs either ground radials or elevated radials.

A notable exception to this is a vertical dipole.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

I never make a mistake. I thought I did once but I was wrong.
KD0ZV
Member

Posts: 37




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« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2017, 06:27:37 AM »

Yea I agree. I should have been more clear.

Robert, based on QRZ page this is your QTH?

I still think a wire across roof and down to the fence on the sides of your house is the best solution for performance and stealth.  You can run the wire right above your shingles.



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WB6BYU
Member

Posts: 17052




Ignore
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2017, 08:39:28 AM »

Quote from: KM6NFF

Well then what are my options with the limited space as indicated earlier.




You still have several options.  The first thing is to choose which bands you are most interested
in.  If you want to work state-wide nets on 40m and 80m I'd recommend a very different antenna
than for working DX on 20m or 17m.  But let's look at a couple of examples and see if those
give you further ideas...

Many multi-band verticals, particularly those of the "half wave" type that only need limited
radials, are rather complex mechanically, and aren't exactly stealthy.  They problem is trying to
get a consistent feedpoint impedance over a wide range of frequencies. 

A single-band vertical isn't too difficult.  For 20m, for example, a traditional ground plane would
use about a 17' vertical element made from telescoping sections of aluminum tubing, with four
wire radials about the same length sloping down from the feedpoint.  For a more stealthy version,
you'd use two wire radials and staple them to the back of the fascia board under the eaves of your
house where they are invisible to the rest of the world.  You could paint the aluminum flat black
to make it much less noticeable, or use a telescoping fishing pole with a wire running up inside as
an alternative radiator, with the base of the antenna mounted at the edge of the roof.  That's no
more visible than the 250B (even if that were painted black) and gives good performance - on one
band.

For multi-band coverage, you could use the same radiator (or lengthening it to 20' if practical) and
put a remote tuner at the feedpoint.  You would also want to add another pair of radials (out of sight
under the eaves) for other bands of particular interest.   That should work reasonably well down to
40m.  Around 12m or 10m the antenna will be 1/2 wavelength and the tuner may not tune it, but
that still gives you a number of usable bands.

If you can't get it up that high, consider mounting it lower and running the radials along a wood fence.


For more local work on 40m and/or 80m, I'd suggest either a loop around the house under the eaves
(out of sight again), or tucked under the corners of the shingles on the roof (using a wire color that
blends in with the shingles.)  It is better if you can get the wire up off the roof somewhat (by stringing
it between the peaks of the roof, for example) but even just laying on the roof will work.  You can use
thin wire for this so it is nearly invisible from a distance.  It's difficult to predict how much the roof
will affect the tuning, so I'd just run twinlead in to a tuner and use it on multiple bands.  In such a
case I've brought the feedline into the attic through a vent somewhere and dropped it straight down
through the ceiling to the station.

I put up such a 40m antenna for a friend years ago while his wife was out.  3 months later she still
hadn't noticed it, and he was out in the garage making contacts.


There are other options as well - like the flag pole or bird feeder with an antenna inside - but these
two are probably the easiest ones to start with if they will work in your situation.
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KM6NFF
Member

Posts: 116




Ignore
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2017, 08:53:12 AM »

Yea I agree. I should have been more clear.

Robert, based on QRZ page this is your QTH?

I still think a wire across roof and down to the fence on the sides of your house is the best solution for performance and stealth.  You can run the wire right above your shingles.







I now have 43 solar panels on my roof and the wife was very clear about no wires hanging around. Happy wife happy life.
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KM6NFF
Member

Posts: 116




Ignore
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2017, 09:00:01 AM »

Quote from: KM6NFF

Well then what are my options with the limited space as indicated earlier.




You still have several options.  The first thing is to choose which bands you are most interested
in.  If you want to work state-wide nets on 40m and 80m I'd recommend a very different antenna
than for working DX on 20m or 17m.  But let's look at a couple of examples and see if those
give you further ideas...

Many multi-band verticals, particularly those of the "half wave" type that only need limited
radials, are rather complex mechanically, and aren't exactly stealthy.  They problem is trying to
get a consistent feedpoint impedance over a wide range of frequencies. 

A single-band vertical isn't too difficult.  For 20m, for example, a traditional ground plane would
use about a 17' vertical element made from telescoping sections of aluminum tubing, with four
wire radials about the same length sloping down from the feedpoint.  For a more stealthy version,
you'd use two wire radials and staple them to the back of the fascia board under the eaves of your
house where they are invisible to the rest of the world.  You could paint the aluminum flat black
to make it much less noticeable, or use a telescoping fishing pole with a wire running up inside as
an alternative radiator, with the base of the antenna mounted at the edge of the roof.  That's no
more visible than the 250B (even if that were painted black) and gives good performance - on one
band.

For multi-band coverage, you could use the same radiator (or lengthening it to 20' if practical) and
put a remote tuner at the feedpoint.  You would also want to add another pair of radials (out of sight
under the eaves) for other bands of particular interest.   That should work reasonably well down to
40m.  Around 12m or 10m the antenna will be 1/2 wavelength and the tuner may not tune it, but
that still gives you a number of usable bands.

If you can't get it up that high, consider mounting it lower and running the radials along a wood fence.


For more local work on 40m and/or 80m, I'd suggest either a loop around the house under the eaves
(out of sight again), or tucked under the corners of the shingles on the roof (using a wire color that
blends in with the shingles.)  It is better if you can get the wire up off the roof somewhat (by stringing
it between the peaks of the roof, for example) but even just laying on the roof will work.  You can use
thin wire for this so it is nearly invisible from a distance.  It's difficult to predict how much the roof
will affect the tuning, so I'd just run twinlead in to a tuner and use it on multiple bands.  In such a
case I've brought the feedline into the attic through a vent somewhere and dropped it straight down
through the ceiling to the station.

I put up such a 40m antenna for a friend years ago while his wife was out.  3 months later she still
hadn't noticed it, and he was out in the garage making contacts.


There are other options as well - like the flag pole or bird feeder with an antenna inside - but these
two are probably the easiest ones to start with if they will work in your situation.


This may be something to look at down the road but being a newbie and having a wife that wants nothing to do with wires all over I thought a Loop like the MFJ or a vertical would work to get me started.
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KD0ZV
Member

Posts: 37




Ignore
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2017, 10:36:00 AM »

I now have 43 solar panels on my roof and the wife was very clear about no wires hanging around. Happy wife happy life.

Good luck sir. I think you picked the wrong hobby Smiley
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N4UE
Member

Posts: 698




Ignore
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2017, 10:43:03 AM »

Or the wrong wife......
 Grin

ron
N4UE
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KM6NFF
Member

Posts: 116




Ignore
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2017, 11:06:45 AM »

Or the wrong wife......
 Grin

ron
N4UE

This has been the right one for over 37 years. I think I'll keep her. LOL
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N4UE
Member

Posts: 698




Ignore
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2017, 12:46:21 PM »

Glad you got a good one. Congratulations !!!!

ron
N4UE
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KM6NFF
Member

Posts: 116




Ignore
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2017, 01:05:23 PM »

Glad you got a good one. Congratulations !!!!

ron
N4UE

Thanks, I'll show her this post. Maybe that will allow me to get some extra goodies for my shack. LOL
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KM1H
Member

Posts: 2476




Ignore
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2017, 02:31:17 PM »

Quote
As for Tessco, I had a very good experience but YMMV.

Ive had an account there for almost 30 years as I did a lot of 2 way installs and service.
If the customer has deep pockets and wants it yesterday they usually have in stock.

As a ham I dont waste money on a hobby when a little time spent can save a lot of money or excellent used is a fraction of new.
Frugality is a trade mark of Northern New Englanders...Ayup.

Carl
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K1ZJH
Member

Posts: 3302




Ignore
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2017, 02:36:53 PM »

When I was working, I was able to order using my company's account number.  Tessco's bottom line price list
couldn't be beat.  But, for regular customers it was list price or a few pennies off for smaller companies.
I think they had three or four price columns.
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