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Author Topic: Can HAM operator buy a new house?  (Read 2530 times)
KO5D
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Posts: 50




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« on: July 06, 2003, 01:26:07 AM »

I'm not trying to duplicate my post.
Here is just my conclusion for previous post:
http://www.eham.net/forums/AntennaRestrictions/899

After about 1 month searching a house I've got conclusion that if I want to buy house it should be something about 25 or more years old,where are not CC&R's anymore . Otherwise you won't install any antennae.
Well,my wife dreaming about a new house and I'm dreaming about a 5el Yagi. It's look like I have to give up my hobby...
I know about all small kind of anntennas on the window,desk,balcony and e.c. But it is not for me...It's not for ARRL,WW DX,WPX Contests...
It's sad ...sigh
I really don't know what to do.
Sergey
KO5D,Hillsboro Oregon
ex:4Z5JZ,4X2M,EV4M,UC2IP,RC2OF,SO5IWG,UA3YBX
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N3ZKP
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Posts: 2008




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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2003, 07:44:54 PM »

<< Well,my wife dreaming about a new house and I'm dreaming about a 5el Yagi. It's look like I have to give up my hobby... >>

Have you considered a new wife? <g>

Seriously, I am sorry you have been placed in this position. I cannot imagine my wife expecting me to give up my primary hobby over a place to live.

I'm fortunate, in that regard, I expect.

For What it's worth, new houses are NOT a good value. Older is better, as you have already been told. My daughter and her husband just bought an older house a couple of month ago - built in 1770 - predates the founding of this country!

Good luck, maybe you WILL find something that meets BOTH your needs.

Lon
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KO5D
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Posts: 50




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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2003, 08:18:50 PM »

Thanks for reply
Would you consider a new wife if you would have a wife 15 years younger? )): I'm 41 and she is 26 ( I like that ) !
Here is a picture http://www.pbase.com/image/15945416
It's my second Hobby ( actually right now first) - Digital Photo and Video.You can see other images in my gallery.

   You have to see her eyes when she is talking about that house...No she is not asking me to give up with hobby,but suggesting smaller hidden antennas.
    Still looking around,the older homes in my area in pretty bad shape ( at least what I saw ) or too far to drive.
Sergey
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WB2WIK
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2003, 12:39:22 PM »

Hi Sergey,

As someone who has bought and sold a great many houses (I'm in house #15 right now, having sold 13 of the others over the years) and having lived many places, here are some good reasons to *avoid* a "new" house:

-No mature trees to provide shade, oxygen and comfort; in most all cases, a "new" home means "new" plantings, which are typically very small and take many years to mature and look like anything.

-Completely unknown traffic patterns; although this is a consideration negotiated between developer and city municipality, most often the "plans" and reality are very different, and once a new neighborhood becomes fully populated, traffic is far worse than anyone predicted.

-Potentially overstressed water and sewage systems.  See above, under traffic patterns -- same things apply.

-Often, unknown school system.  For a development to occur, schools will be in place, for certain; but often, nobody knows how good or bad they are for several years.

-CC&Rs restrict a great deal more than antennas; usually, if a single covenant is in place, there are hundreds in total, restricting everything from the height of a fence you might install, to the height of your rose bushes, to what color you can paint your home, to what kind of mailbox you can install -- and frequently, worse...not unusual for CC&Rs to prohibit parking vehicles in driveways or streets overnight, or having an RV (trailer, motor home, boat, etc) anywhere on the property.  The lists go on and on, and can be pretty scary.

-Many new "conforming" developments also have "security gates," sometimes with guards, or sometimes only electronic.  Having lived in and owned homes both with and without the gates, let me tell you: The gates stink.  They can create lines to even escape your own neighborhood, and worse (for me) they prevent unexpected guests from ever dropping in for a visit.  I truly hated them, and will never live behind a "gate" again, ever.

-When a Homeowners Association has the power to issue violation notices and fines, these can be very serious.  One good friend of mine fought an HOA for four years in court over the height of his XYL's prize-winning rose bushes (which were 84" or so tall, while he CC&Rs restricted all plantings to 66") and, after all was said and done, had to pay over $60,000 in fines and court costs.

-New homes in "planned communities" frequently do not have private swimming pools, but rather a "community" pool shared by many.  Not conducive to that midnight nude swim with the XYL...which can be kind of fun, and one of the main reasons for having a private pool in the first place.  The "community" pools also don't allow alcoholic beverages within their gates (usually), so that ends the glass of wine you and the XYL might enjoy after the swim...  For that matter, usually anything made of glass is not allowed near community pools.  Enjoy your imitation vodka cooler in a plastic cup.

-Earthquake survival: Here on the U.S. west coast, we are very much in the "ring of fire" that populates both sides of the Pacific, and this ring has earthquakes and the occasional volcano.  Brand new construction is completely unproven with regard to disaster survival, most of which is based more on the earth the house sits on than the house itself.  A 40 year-old home which successfully survived 40 years of earthquakes without damage is proven, and likely sits on very solid ground.  With new construction, who knows?  During the huge 1994 earthquake we had here in southern California, there was more substantial damage done to "new" housing than to "old" housing...likely because most "new" housing was built on "fill" rather than earth carved by the glaciers.

-I could go on and on.  Think about it, and possibly convince the XYL that "new" is hardly ever "better."

WB2WIK/6



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W7KKK
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Posts: 374




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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2003, 01:16:11 PM »

Why not buy property and build out in the county away from others and CCRs and the like.
That's what we are doing.
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N3ZKP
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Posts: 2008




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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2003, 01:22:23 PM »

<< Would you consider a new wife if you would have a wife 15 years younger? )): >>

I'm 60; if I had a wife 15 years younger I'd probably be suffering multiple heart attacks!!! <g>

I understand the problem; my wife and I are planning our retirement home now. Hopefully it will be at the other end of the lot my daughter has. We have the problem of making the house design fit the pre-revolutionary area she lives in. Puts a REAL limit on the style and size of the house. Fortunately, antennas aren't an issue; no towers over 40' but anything else goes.

Good luck on the search. Keep looking and you'll find one the makes BOTH of you happy.

Lon
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N0XAS
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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2003, 10:41:56 PM »

As someone who has lived in both deed-restricted and older neighborhoods, let me weigh in on this.  Granted I have not had to move quite as often as some folks, but staying out of trouble with the law has its advantages.  8-)  Many people tend to inaccurately and unfairly characterize all neighborhoods with deed restrictions as "cookie-cutter", brand new, super-conformist neighborhoods of identical houses, all lined up for inspection by the jackboot-and-monacle homeowner association.  While such places certainly do exist, this is simply not an accurate representation of most neighborhoods in which deed restrictions apply.

I personally would not want to put up with a brand new house unless it was one I had built, and personally checked up on the building of it.  Too many new houses suffer from truly shoddy construction in places you won't find out about until it's too late.  If you can work with the builder while it's  being built and make sure things are done right, it's another matter.  That also makes it easier to get things like cable and conduit installed in beneficial places.

My first house was built in the 1920's.  Never again; the maintenance and upkeep are a pain in the butt, and any improvements can easily turn into nightmares.  Our last house was 16 years old when we bought it; this one was a little under 11.  The trees and all are big enough to survive on their own, but not so big the roots are causing problems.  Most of the new-home things have been sorted out.  The neighborhood is well established, as our house is in the last of four phases built over a 15 year period.  The school system is the same one that has existed since early in the century, and is arguably the best in the state - though not the largest.

The list of restrictions in most neighborhoods do indeed prohibit or limit more than just antennas.  However, the majority of these rules amount to not much more than local ordinances anyway.  Things like derelict cars, boats and RV parked in the street for more than a limited time are illegal in many places anyway.  Most of us don't need to worry about gated communities, and if you can afford to live in one you can certainly find something more to your liking without the Stalag entrance.  You are of course not so stupid as to move somewhere with restrictions that you can't get along with, so I wonlt belabor the horror stories any further.

In many areas, as you have noticed, if you want a house less than 25-30 years old you're simply going to have to put up with covenants for some period of time.  My suggestions:

1.)  READ the covenents to find out how long they are in force, how they are/can be enforced, etc.
2.)  ASK about the homeowner's association.  Ask the neighbors, ask around.  In some places there is virtually no enforcement, especially if covenants expire in a few years anyway.
3.)  LOOK around and see if there are already many flagrant violations of the covenants.  If so, you may be dealing with a neighborhood that simply doesn't care about them unless things get really bad.
4.)  Look for the last houses built in the development.  Might as well have a head start on the expiration date of the covenants.
5.)  If you can't put up an outside antenna, don't think you can't do a lot with one or more dipoles in the attic, or wire loops outside.  You don't have to put up with a mobile whip clamped to a window frame.
6.)  TALK to your neighbors.  Get to know them, be a good neighbor.  Chances are so will they, which means if you don't go out of your way to piss them off they won't go out of their way to cause you trouble.

It is quite possible,and not too difficult, to end up with a new or newer house, a happy XYL, and a decent performing antenna system.  You just have to balance your priorities and use it as an opportunity to learn.

73 & GL,
Dale - N0XAS
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KO5D
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Posts: 50




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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2003, 02:19:16 AM »

Thanks guys to everybody
I'll update this post in the future how it ended.
Meantime my realtor ask me to get some pictures of antennas,and he printing presentation of HAM radio from ARRL web site and going to fight with HOA (sorry,going to do presentation...). I amazed he is going to do that - I didn't signed any paperwork yet and didn't do any preapproval.Is it normal? Even,he is going to try to sign 23 neighbors.I printed him "An open letter to America" from http://comdinet.com/emcom/letter.html
It's a nice letter written by Eric Forsman,KC0LWV.
So, my agent says the chances very low but he is going to try.
Will see...
Anyway looking for other options as well and very apriciate all your coments that I'm taking to concideration.
Sergey,KO5D
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KE3HO
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Posts: 235




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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2003, 12:37:04 PM »

Sergey,

Good luck, I hope things work out. If you can get the HOA to agree to allowing your antennas, make sure they put it all in writing before you sign a contract to buy the house. The last time my wife and I were house shopping, we found a development of new houses that we were really interested in. I asked the sales lady (who worked for the developer) about antenna restictions. She told me straight to my face that there were no restrictions. I asked for a copy of the covenants. She was reluctant to give that to me, but finally did when she realized I wasn't going to give her a deposit until I saw it all in writing. I got a signed agreement that if I found anything that I objected to in the covenants I could get all of my deposit back. When I read the covenants, sure enough it said "no ouside antennas of any kind". When I went back and pointed this out to the sales lady, she said, "Well of course it doesn't allow outside antennas, they're ugly!" This was the same lady who told me that there were no restrictions on antennas.

73 - Jim
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KG4RUL
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2003, 02:45:01 PM »

I know this will make me into a lightning rod but, here goes anyhow:

Don't trust a Real Estate Agent (even if they are a "buyer's agent") or Real Estate Attorney as far as you can throw one.  

At the time we bought our current home, I was not a Ham so this is slightly off-topic.  We asked for a copy of the plat so we could see how the house related to the property lines.  We were given, by our "buyer's agent" a xerox copy that was all but unreadable.

I had to be away on a business trip at the time of the closing so I gave my Wife power-of-attorney for the transaction.  At the closing, the attorney (which you HAVE TO USE in our state) gave her a clear copy of the plat which showed a 40' easement at the back of the property and and 8' easement on one side.  This fact had NEVER been brought out prior to this time.

My Wife, not realizing the significance of this fact, signed away.  Had I been present, we would have walked away from the closing.

So, the moral is:  Ask about your concerns and get a written response.  If you don't get it in writing, and signed, dated and witnessed, it DON'T MEAN NUTHIN!   It is the ONLY recourse you might have later.

Dennis - KG4RUL
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KO5D
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Posts: 50




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« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2003, 08:52:22 PM »

Dennis
Sorry to hear about your troubles.
   I think I'm not trust too much to any promises and want things to be written. So far my agent talked to neibours of the house we wanted , and they say the antenna will look ugly at their area.
   I'm on hold right now because everything I saw in pretty bad condition and no restriction and opposite - good or very good condition of property but there are CC&R.s.
Sergey
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VE6VPD
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Posts: 4




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« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2003, 10:51:20 PM »

Sergey,
When I wanted to put up an antenna in my Condo Complex, I simply pointed out to the board that there were several Digital TV minidishes in place already, and these were indeed antennas.  I was certain these people did not ask permission, thus I requested the same exception to the ruling that these people already enjoyed.  I also provided drawings and pictures to show what my antenna would look like.

It worked!  I hope this helps.

Failing this, there are attic antennas -loops, dipoles, etc- that can get you on the air.
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WB2WIK
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« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2003, 02:31:06 PM »

Sergey, people can create their own obstacles at will, but there is no place in the United States where one cannot find accommodations for outdoor and effective amateur radio antennas, for property costing the same as new construction which prohibits same.

My suggestion to ask local hams (via a radio club meeting, on the local repeaters, or any other means) who are active DXers and have antenna farms what they would specifically recommend, and they will provide useful suggestions.  Here in southern California, anyone who asks me where to buy a very nice home in a place having no antenna restrictions gets a very direct and truthful answer...there are hundreds of such places, and well-known "ham friendly" towns which have specific ordinances in place to provide for 70' towers on residential lots to accommodate amateurs.  

But even looking at properties having CC&Rs is a bit like window-shopping for products you cannot buy.  I don't even waste my time.

WB2WIK/6
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MS5AGI
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« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2003, 12:37:38 AM »

well i just got my tech.the first one .my call is KD5YTE.  my neice lives in a city that allows no antennas none at all. tv is via cable all power is underground she had a scanner and gave it to me when i helped her move . the gate keeper told me to turn off all radio equiptment [am/fm ,scanner ect.]and remove the fuses! she has been fined for useing the wrong color garbage bags ! what a fine place to live
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N3ZKP
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Posts: 2008




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« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2003, 04:46:15 PM »

She lives in this place by CHOICE?

If so, I feel no sympathy whatsoever.

Lon
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