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Author Topic: Wire Antenna under the eave's?  (Read 2981 times)
KM6CQ
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Posts: 17




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« on: May 26, 2008, 08:03:58 AM »

Hello,
I am starting to put together some of ideas for a HF antenna in a new home on a golf course that does not allow any antennas. I will be living here for the next 5 years. I am thinking of either taking a Long wire and stapling it under the eaves of the house. This is a two story. Or just running a dipole under the eves. I would make each leg as long as I can, they would not be symmetrical. The second option is since I will watch the home being built I will have great access to the attic to install anything. One last thing. My Station will be located on the second level in a spare bedroom. I run a Yaesu HF rig Drake L4B with matching tuner. I am also having 220 wired to the bedroom. How cool is that? This is a new development with baby trees. So that is about it. Thanks for the help,    Dan  KM6CQ
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KF5KWO
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Posts: 53




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« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2008, 10:56:40 AM »

Dan,

I'm under the same restrictions you are (many of us are, of course).  Under the eaves is a great place for a stealth wire loop.  I run mine all the way around the house, and I've worked all over the country on 40 and 80 with it (100 watts).  

Sorry to hear about the baby trees - a stealth wire vertical on a 33-foot Jackite telescoping fiberglass pole would be great.  I homebrewed one of those as well.

But back to the wire under the eaves - definitely go for it, but being a compromise antenna, you likely won't see the performance you may have seen at any other QTHs.  Good luck!

73 de Jeff, KF5KWO
Helotes, TX
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WB2WIK
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« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2008, 01:30:54 PM »

If you're having the house built, why not spend a bit more and have the landscaper plant some not-so-baby trees, maybe forty footers?

If they do this before the sod is down and they can get heavy equipment into the yard, it's much cheaper than doing it later.

I've had 50' trees planted for about $1500 each; they use a small crane to get them in.

When you have some decent trees, "invisible" wire antennas can work really, really well...

WB2WIK/6
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W7IBI
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Posts: 54




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« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2008, 09:18:34 AM »

A wire antenna under the eaves might be okay if you don't have a stucco finish on the outside of the house. The wire mesh beneath the stucco affected the wire I ran under the eaves and I ended up taking it down. There was only a foot or so between mesh and antenna.
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KB9CRY
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« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2008, 07:35:52 AM »

 run a Yaesu HF rig Drake L4B with matching tuner. I am also having 220 wired to the bedroom.

Not cool unless you install that wire on stand-offs at least a foot away from any structure; if you don't, you run the risk of arcing and causing a fire.

If the eaves are metal, your antenna will be severely de-tuned and will be extremely inefficient.

I'd look to other solutions to your problem.
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W3LK
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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2008, 08:08:14 AM »

While a loop or dipole stapled to the underside of wooden eaves will work, you also have an excellent chance that you will have RF getting into the electronics in your home. The same goes for attic-mounted antennas.

Virtually anything up in the air will beat your eave-mounted loop or dipole.

73,

Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut
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A smoking section in a restaurant makes as much sense as a peeing section in a swimming pool.
KB3ILN
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Posts: 33




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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2008, 10:05:37 AM »

How about a flagpole. http://force12inc.com/F12-flagpole-ants-003.htm
Ed
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WM2P
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Posts: 26




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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2008, 11:01:58 AM »

Same situation but the golf course is under construction. Smiley  My shack is also on the second floor. I simply ran coax through the wall into a closet in the next room and then up into my attic. I got a DX Engineering 4:1 balun and attached some #14 wire to it and pushed it through one of the attic vent opennings. I then waited for a wind storm to push the wire off the roof. Once off the roof I now could grab the end. I used a 32' extendable pole and EZ-Hang which allowed me to run the wire across the top of my roof into a large tree adjacent to my house. I could have also just had it run down the other side of the house where the cable and phone wires run without anyone noticing. Then I wanted to work 80 meters so I added some #22 wire to it and ran it around my property so the wire is exposed and can be seen when the sun hits it just right. One important thing is that I added several counterpoises cut to quarter wave lengths for all the bands to the ground side of the balun in my attic. I arranged the counterpoises in a fan pattern as best I could.

I also added a 600 watt amp and have no RFI issues in my house or my neighbor.s When asked about the wire they see, I simply say that I listen to shortwave or if the homeowners association asks, it is the wire I hang my party lights on. A wire is a wire to a non ham and the thought that it is an antenna will not occur to most of them. If you want to go the extra mile, buy those plastic party lanterns, and intertwine them with the antenna wire. You can even plug them in once in a while so people get used to the idea that the wire is just to hold the lights.

I tried runing the wire under my eaves but as others here said, I got RFI in the house and lots of noise from the electrical lines running near the antenna wire. When my wife turned on the vacuum cleaner, it would wipe me out with noise. I am a big fan of random wires because very few people will think "antenna" and there are so many ways to disguise and hide them. I have a friend who simply ran his around the top of his fence. They can be viewed as guy wires for a new tree or simply run out of the attic to a point down the side of the house. Attics are not air tight and most have vents and vent windows just covered with screening. Very easy to enlarge a hole in the screena nd push some wire out. Not the best, but it works.

Within 10 months of setting up this antenna I have over 1000 contacts, 129 DXCC enties and worked all states with 57-59 signal reports with and without the amp. I only use the amp when there is no or poor propagation which seems to be every weekend these days.

One more thought. A screwdriver antenna works very well on a tripod in the back yard and you can take it in when done. Heck, I have even just openned a window in the shack and ran a wire from the tuner to the storage shed at the back of my property and then removed it when done. Even without an attic there is always a way. I take a QRP rig and a spool of magnet wire with me when I travel so it does not take much if you are determined to make it work. Good luck.
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KG6WLS
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Posts: 507




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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2008, 01:43:53 PM »

>RE: Wire Antenna under the eave's?  Reply  
by WB2WIK on May 26, 2008  Mail this to a friend!  
If you're having the house built, why not spend a bit more and have the landscaper plant some not-so-baby trees, maybe forty footers?<

::Here's a few more ideas:

1.) Before they put down the sod, run as many radials as you can afford heading towards that not-so-baby tree.

2.) After that not-so-baby tree is planted, then run some resonant vertical lengths of wire up the tree.

3.) Water and feed the tree and maybe in 5 years you'll have an antenna that will cover 160 meters!

:-)

73
 
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KC8PX
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Posts: 27




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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2008, 08:06:28 PM »

I HAVE A PERFECT SOLUTION FOR CC&R HIDDEN ANTENNAS.  THIS WORKS FOR ME.  GO TO A WEBSITE CALLED FINDTAPE.COM .
THIS MANUFACTURER PRODUCES FLAT ADHESIVE COPPER ROLLS IN VARIOUS WIDTHS AND LENGTHS.  JUST STICK IT TO ANY HOUSE OR FENCE. IT CAN BE PAINTED TO ANY COLOR TO MATCH YOUR SIDING. ATTACH TWIN-LEAD TO IT AND YOU NOW HAVE AN INVISIBLE ANTENNA, SUITABLE TO LOAD UP WITH WHATEVER POWER AND BAND THAT YOU DESIRE.

73
BOB-KC8PX
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KD4VCF
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Posts: 2




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« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2008, 11:20:02 AM »

Are you in the house yet? If so what is the results with the antenna under the eaves? What type of siding does it have? Are you using insulators to keep it away from the house?
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KD4VCF
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Posts: 2




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« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2008, 11:24:41 AM »

Are you in the house yet? If so what is the results with the antenna under the eaves? What type of siding does it have? Are you using insulators to keep it away from the house?
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KM6CQ
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Posts: 17




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« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2009, 04:08:08 PM »

Hello all,
well it has been a year almost since I made that post. I backed out of buying the house. I bought a house outside of town that I can put up antennas at. I told the builder why I changed my mind and voted with my feet.
It was just not worth being a frustrated ham, though I passed up a very good deal. But how good was it? I am 47, should I wait until I am 67 for antenna liberty? Thank you all for your input. I am now free with my Antennas and QRO

Best Regards,   Dan  KM6CQ

Long Live Ham Radio and Bluegrass music.
God Bless Nevada.
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N4UM
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Posts: 483




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« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2009, 04:16:48 PM »

I'd be very careful running that amplifier to an antenna that close to where people are likely to be.  I suggest you use Eznec to model the antenna you propose to use.  Eznec will enable you to estimate the amount of rf exposure at various points (which you can specify) relative to the antenna.  
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WX7G
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Posts: 6331




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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2009, 08:31:23 AM »

My experience with attic and close to the roof antennas have involved RF setting off the built-in smoke alarms. Since you have access to them during the build you can RFI proof them.

Running the leads through several ferrites can take care of common-mode ingress. For differential mode a safety rated X-capacitor (0.01 uF) from line-to-line can take care of differential-mode ingress. I don't think the electrician can or will install X-caps but if you use a UL approved EMI filter on each smoke alarm he might install it. Slipping ferrites over the wires should be ok with him or her.

Since I bought my new house after it was finished I didn't want to root around in the attic to RFI proof the smoke alarms. I use a screwdriver antenna in the yard - 25' from the house - disquised as a bird house feeder support. The antenna is inside a 4 x 4 inch hollow plastic fence post. Running 500 watts I do quite well.

GFI's will also be a problem with an attic antenna. I ordered one advertised to be RF immune and it is. I'll get you the model number and post it here. I recommend having these installed from the start.
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