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Author Topic: Good vertical antenna.....  (Read 1353 times)
KC2PHJ
Member

Posts: 21




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« on: April 30, 2007, 05:54:18 PM »

What would be a good vertical antenna if you don't have room for radials and would cover 10-80m? Also take more than 200 watts.
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WT0A
Member

Posts: 922




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« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2007, 06:03:57 PM »

Gap Titan but as with most multiband vericals the 80 M perf is poor and bandwidth tiny.
Glen
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W7ETA
Member

Posts: 2527




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« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2007, 08:32:18 PM »

Congrats on your recent upgrade.

We are at the bottom of the sunspot cycle, and the beginning of summer.  During summer, the static crashes on 160, 80, and 40 will be LOUDER than just about any signals.  10-15 won't be open that often.  As a result, you'll have more fun if you concentrate on getting a good antenna for 20 than might also work on 17 and 30.

If you haven't found W4RNL's web site yet, he has TONS of useful info.

73
Bob
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N6AJR
Member

Posts: 9927




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« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2007, 08:49:02 PM »

they will most all need some radials, even if bent. look at the steppir 6-80 meter vert, the standard one does 500 watts. slick and sweet and perfect on every band. a little expensive, but the last Vert you will ever buy.
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K0ZN
Member

Posts: 1563




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« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2007, 10:19:41 PM »


Hi.

If you can't or won't put in radials you pretty much MUST have one of the "no radial" types of antennas.

Conventional 1/4 wave verticals (i.e. almost all "multi band trap verticals") MUST have a decent radial system to work efficiently. The ground radial system is literally the other HALF of the antenna system! One or two or NO radials will cause 1/2 of your transmitted power to be lost in ground losses.

Respectfully, you would be doing yourself and your signal a Huge favor by picking up a copy of the ARRL Antenna Book and putting in a little book time to get a grasp of antenna fundamentals. They are not complex, but they are not intutive either. The knowledge you gain would go a long way towards a better signal and more fun in the hobby. No station is any better than its antenna. You can pick up a cheap older copy, which is just fine for learning basics on Ebay. Time and money VERY well spent for a new ham!

73,  K0ZN
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W8KQE
Member

Posts: 245




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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2007, 10:48:18 PM »

You can't go wrong with a GAP or Cushcraft properly installed.  However, with HF conditions being the way they currently are on the higher bands, you may very well 'underestimate' the true capability of these antennas should you not get the performance you may think you should be getting out of them.
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G4AON
Member

Posts: 545




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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2007, 01:10:55 AM »

Don't get fooled by the "no radial" wide band verticals, with resistive matching, that seem to be appearing in the adverts at the moment... Nothing has changed in physics, full size dipoles, ground planes, quads and yagis all perform well, resistors don't!

A good (and very low cost) place to start is with a fibreglass fishing pole and a spool of wire. You can try several bands, even multi-band. As one of the other posts suggested 20 metres might be good to try at the moment, an elevated ground plane doesn't need much room and can be installed and removed again in a few minutes, at least you then know what works and more importantly doesn't work.

A ground mounted full size 1/4 wave vertical for 20m (around 16 foot tall), with 16 buried radials, might look neat but performs poorly compared to one with the feed point ten feet in the air using 4 radials. I guess it all depends on how much room you can find for antennas.

Some ideas to consider:
http://www.astromag.co.uk/vertical/

73 Dave
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W9PMZ
Member

Posts: 577


WWW

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« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2007, 03:50:19 AM »

Remember, radials are necessary for vertical antenna optimal performace; but if you don't have room for optimal radials, as many short ones as possible will work also.

That being said, GAPs and Cushcrafts are comprimises; and do work.  But remember, all vertical antennas need an image (ground plance) to work against and the aformentioned antennas are no exception.

But, a Butternut HF6V or a Hustler 5BTV will work with many short radials underneath them.  Lay the radials onto of freshly and short cut grass.  Stretch them and anchor them.  In 2 to 3 months you'll never see them.

73,

Carl - W9PMZ
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K7JQ
Member

Posts: 345




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« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2007, 05:31:47 AM »

I've had good results with the Hy-Gain AV-640 (6-40 meters). The AV620 is similar, only covers 6-20 meters. Each one uses 8 rigid radial rods...great bandwidth and a real performer for what it is, and a winner for tight spaces. Should be mounted 10 feet or higher above ground.
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K9KEJ
Member

Posts: 21




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« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2007, 08:57:25 AM »

Check the reviews for HF vereticals and the Zero Five antenna. Then go to the web page:  
www.ZEROFIVE-ANTENNAS.COM and see the models.

I have two of these antennas. I use a tuner while running the legal limit.
I had a half dozen radials on each one, but took them off and ran the 43-foot version without them. I have super-conductive ground as well. These antennas are the best I'vew ever used! I have used the 4-BTV and 14AVQ-and they cannot compare to the Zero Five.
Orrin
K9KEJ
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W7ETA
Member

Posts: 2527




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« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2007, 02:11:22 PM »

Super conductive ground.

Just for fun, I'd like to model that in EXNEC.

What are the specs for SUPER conductive ground?

Bob
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W7ETA
Member

Posts: 2527




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« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2007, 02:13:37 PM »

Super conductive ground.

Just for fun, I'd like to model that in EXNEC.

What are the specs for SUPER conductive ground?

Bob
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W7ETA
Member

Posts: 2527




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« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2007, 02:14:05 PM »

Super conductive ground.

Just for fun, I'd like to model that in EXNEC.

What are the specs for SUPER conductive ground?

Bob
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W7ETA
Member

Posts: 2527




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« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2007, 02:26:12 PM »

Looks like I go SO excited about superconducting earth, that I posted three times.  Oooops.
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W8JJI
Member

Posts: 291




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« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2007, 05:41:57 PM »

Try a Hy-Gain DX-77 or an AV-640.
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