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Author Topic: New Tokyo Hy Power SS 5K Amp and Auto Tuner  (Read 1578 times)
K2ACB
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« on: September 01, 2009, 07:07:26 PM »

At the recent Tokyo 2009 Ham Festival Tokyo Hy Power unvailed several new amplifiers. Among those amplifiers was a new 5K solid state amp using the ARF1500 transistors and a matching auto tuner.

Does anybody know anything about this amplifier and automatic tuner? The pictures of the amp and tuner  can be seen on You Tube and QRZ.Com  

Is this amplifier a prototype? If it is a prototype how long will it be before it is on the market? Will it be for amateur and/or commercial use or only commercial use?

Finally what will be the price of these units? I imagine it will be quite expensive, probably and I am guessing , above $10,000 for both and maybe over $15,000.

Is this the wave of the future for hf amplifiers? Will in a few years top of the line legal and above legal limit hf and vhf  amplifiers be mostly solid state as ceramic tubes become more costly and are becoming harder to find? Will top of the line solid state hf amplifiers be no more expensive than the most costly tube amplifiers that now run up to $10,000

Comments on this new amplifier and auto tuner are welcome.
73-Alan-K2ACB
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K2FR
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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2009, 07:14:42 PM »

When we can only use 1500 watts..  


I have to ask the question..    "why?"


I guess if you have a boatload of disposable income you can say.. im running legal limit and only pushing in 5 watts?


*shrug*

Solid state isnt strong enough for large amps "yet"  Tubes will hold out until a near indestructible solid state amp comes out when they find some new medium that can withstand the heat
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W5WSS
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2009, 07:28:03 PM »

HMMM...I purchased an THP HL-450B. Myself and a few others have not been able to acheive their advertised pep output power for this model.Regardless of current and voltage available at the amplifier power terminals just does not make their rated power Wonder if this version is inflated as well? Perhaps a little biasing would help in our model but beware of the rating. 25% inflated? could be.
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W5WSS
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2009, 07:33:16 PM »

HMMM...I purchased an THP HL-450B. Myself and a few others have not been able to acheive their advertised pep output power for this model.Regardless of current and voltage available at the amplifier power terminals just does not make their rated power Wonder if this version is inflated as well? Perhaps a little biasing would help in our model but beware of the rating. 25% inflated? could be.
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K6AER
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2009, 08:47:09 PM »

The devices were designed for medical and heating applications and I would like to see what the real world IMD figures in actual linear operation.

Several amplifiers manufactures have experimented with these MOSFETs and they are fragile at max output. For any new amplifier using these devices in the final I would wait at least a year to see how the reliability works out. Also speaking of warranty, the transistors are as expensive as high power tubes and a bunch less forgiving. I would hate to get the bill for replacement after the warranty runs out.

One last thought, the strip line will be very impedance specific and only these devices could be used as a replacement. What if the manufacture drops the production of these devices?

Bottom line is I would use only a slid state amplifier design that had several sources for the output devices.

The average new tube HF amplifier capable of 2400 watts PEP in SSB operation cost between $3800-$5500 depending of manufacture. If you make a mistake in your antenna selection your amplifier will be around for another day.
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VR2AX
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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2009, 02:20:55 AM »

I think the '5K' must refer to input, not output power:

http://www.onjapan.net/2009/hamfair/tokyo-hy-power.html

VR2AX
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G8UBJ
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2009, 02:35:20 AM »

These devices have already been incorporated into Amateur designs..

http://www.arrl.org/qex/2006/09/qx9ohsawa.pdf

IMD is fine with an output of about 1500 watts. As for reliability I have no issues with my HL-700B Tokyo amp it includes very good protection systems.
I think the 450 is a bit of a "budget amp" with half the number of output devices.. guess you get what you pay for.

Are there still people using hollow state technology, all that dip and load stuff? I guess its cheap and cheerful but come on this is the 21st century!
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WA3SKN
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« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2009, 04:21:45 AM »

Why aren't you asking Tokyo Hy Power engineers about this?  They might be able to answer your questions.

-Mike.
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VR2AX
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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2009, 06:37:40 AM »

Hukkh. The 450 costs 70% of the price of a 700B, and has firmware that supposedly prevents it from TXing where only ghosts whisper. But realistically, why pay over USD1K for an HF solid state amp, just to avoid using basic skills?
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HFRF
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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2009, 06:43:40 AM »

For all you experts that say solid state amps are unreliable and have imd and other problems, you need to go to sites that have been using 25KW+ solid state transmitters for decdades so you can see how full of crap you are.
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VR2AX
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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2009, 06:48:13 AM »

Accepted, but comm stations can afford to pay techs USD200-300 per hour for maintenance work. Cheap at a half or third of the price?
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K0BG
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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2009, 06:50:42 AM »

It appears to be almost a copy of Dishtronix's Prometheus, and yes, I'm sure it'll do what they say it will do (about 2800 out, give or take).

As for the HL450. If you read the fine print, they say typical output is 350 watts, and go on to say at least 300. The latter is correct except perhaps for 160 and 80. It uses just 4 of the THP-150 finals. Considering the 700B uses 8 of them, and is rated at 700 watts, but does just 600 watts on a very good day, the 450's low output doesn't surprise me.

The Ameritron solid state amplifiers aren't built as well, but they don't mix words about how much power out they'll develop, including the ALS-500.

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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K0BG
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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2009, 07:06:02 AM »

Michael, K6AER, I tend to agree with you (in general anyway), but HFRF is dead on!

The Prometheus easily meets the FCC requirements, and its IMD is actually better than some high-priced tube amps. Assuming of course, they're driven correctly. This includes the use of properly adjusted ALC connections.

While Alpha makes very good products (your obvious first love), the fact that a number of them (over the years) didn't have ALC connections, opened them up to easy abuse (over driving), with a resulting increase in IMD products.

In any case, you can't made a pat statement about tubes amps always having better IMD ratings, because that is just not the case.

Alan, KØBG
www.k0bg.com
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WX0B
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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2009, 08:15:31 AM »

Don't be so 90's oriented. The new devices are not the only ones that can be used to generate high power. I sold vacuum plasma amps for years in the 90s that did 5,10,15kW RF forever at 13.56, 27,40,and 80Mhz ISM bands. They were well protected and had many features such as pulsing, programmable cycles, etc that made them stressed in all kinds of ways, and talk about load variations, a vacuum plasma goes from a very high resistance to a very low resistance in nano-seconds, yet these generators keep on ticking, while the slow auto-tuners tried to keep up.  It's all been done for a long time now.  
Now that THP has taken the lead in high quality rugged design for solid state ham products they are rightfully getting lots of attention.
But guys, THP's main business is medical RF generation, they know what they are doing, and the translation to ham radio is a natural.  Please review their Japan website to see the medical RF side of the company. Also I have had the QEX article about the design of the HL-2.5Kfx on our web site for quite some time now. It clearly shows how it is all done.
See it here http://www.arraysolutions.com/Products/THPtop.htm
Click on the QEX artical which is a .pdf file.

Thanks for the interesting subject.  Per the 5kW output amplifier, power supply, and tuner. It was shown at the JA show, but don't expect it to be on the Ham market soon. It will have lots of interest in the commercial radio market place and we look forward to selling it, but it will be expensive.  They did introduce some new HF and 50MHz designs at the show that will be FCC approved mid next year.

As alway please call or e-mail us offline for THP information.  

73 - Jay, WX0B
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NN4ZZ
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« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2009, 04:59:36 PM »

Alan / K0BG wrote:

"The Prometheus easily meets the FCC requirements, and its IMD is actually better than some high-priced tube amps. Assuming of course, they're driven correctly. This includes the use of properly adjusted ALC connections.  

It (THP 5K) appears to be almost a copy of Dishtronix's Prometheus..."

Alan, I can't comment on the THP 5K but I have a Prometheus DX2400 and it's works great.  It's capable of 2,400 watts and has a lot of head room when running at 1,500 watts, so I agree with your comments.  More feedback on the DX2400 on my web page for anyone interested:

http://www.nn4zz.com/Prometheus.htm

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ
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