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Author Topic: Civility  (Read 3560 times)
KG6MZS
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Posts: 476




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« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2009, 06:16:25 PM »

I'm mostly a soundcard digital guy myself.  30m is a great band for that.  Vastly underused.  I guess I never understood the gripe about contesters.  90% of the time there is no major contest on any band.  If my neighbors only party on weekends, it isn't too much trouble to put up with the noise.
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KB5ZXM
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Posts: 214




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« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2009, 06:30:48 PM »

Of the Hamms I have met,on aire and face to face, there is such a very SMALL percentage of "B holes" that I feel blessed to have this hobby.
BTW my daughter played Clarinet  in High School she told me that's what they call Brass Players< grin>
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KG4DGF
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Posts: 50




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« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2009, 07:42:52 PM »

The majority of hams i know have been fine.  And on the air i give everyone a fair chance and don't ever recall not liking a qso enough to leave.  Just relax and enjoy it.  I agree with K5END that CW is a good place for people burnt out of SSB.  I enjoy hanging out with the SKCC around 7.110 to 7.125.  They are all very patience because face it, 30 wpm on a Straight Key is a rarity.

Find what you enjoy in the hobby and enjoy it.  IF you don't like something, spin the big dial.  If its something like a contest, maybe try it out.

Take care and hope to see you on the air.
73 de WI3M
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K9FON
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Posts: 1012




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« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2009, 07:58:17 PM »

some will say that hams changed after the CW requirements were dropped.
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K2OOG
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Posts: 124




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« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2009, 07:05:23 AM »

Tony,
In life in general we need to be very, very careful of taking advice from others. Sometimes its good and sometimes its bad advice.
eham forums have given me a much greater appreciation of the ARRL.
When I have asked questions of the ARRL technical staff, I always get a very professional answer.
Never personally insulting.
Never rude.
The last thing one wants when he asks a technical question is to be personally insulted, and of course the ARRL staff is very professional and never insult people who ask questions.
The ARRL staff technical experts are licensed hams, but they are also professionals, good enough to be selected and paid to answer technical questions. They tend to have an excellence of expertise, far beyond simply having a ham license.
I have always been very pleased with the technical answers I have received from the ARRL. And of course their written publications are excellent.
I have never had difficulty with QSOs, on the air contacts, in terms of personal insults, some hams are more polite than others.
But I have been shocked by eham postings sometimes.
Extreme personal insults sometimes.
Extreme vulgarity on some postings.
You never know who is doing the postings and how competent they really are in radio and electronics and ham matters.
I have been impressed by the technical competence of some postings on eham, but deeply disappointed by others.
In some cases, even hams who have been licensed a very long time and have been active for many years don't seem to be give the correct technical answers to basic questions asked, and some of them are very personally insulting.
Some postings are excellent, some are just terrible. No uniformity in the answers one gets on eham forums.
It seems to me that there is greater uniformity of professionalism when I ask a technical question of the ARRL technical staff.
I know I will not get an insulting answer. The person answering is a paid selected professional who is technically competent.
So eham forums have given me a much greater appreciation of the technical services offered by the ARRL.
I hope that this posting is useful to others.
Thank you Tony for starting this discussion.
73,
David
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N2EY
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Posts: 3877




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« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2009, 06:39:29 PM »

I think it's a combination of factors.

1) The internet has different rules than Amateur Radio. Particularly on unmoderated forums.

2) The bad stuff is the work of a relatively small percentage, who unfortunately are very visible/audible. The vast majority of hams are very civil, online or onair.

3) Different people have different definitions of civility. For example, I have encountered people online who consider ANY disagreement with their views as a direct, personal insult, and a reason to come out swinging. Something as simple as pointing out that something they wrote is factually untrue, or illogical, or just their opinion and not a proven fact, can be reason for uncivil behavior from them.  

Ghandi said: "You must be the change you want to see in the world". Good advice.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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KU5Q
Member

Posts: 89


WWW

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« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2009, 07:13:34 PM »

"3) Different people have different definitions of civility. For example, I have encountered people online who consider ANY disagreement with their views as a direct, personal insult, and a reason to come out swinging. Something as simple as pointing out that something they wrote is factually untrue, or illogical, or just their opinion and not a proven fact, can be reason for uncivil behavior from them."

=======================================================

I noticed that Jim back at the "resistors as fuses" thread. Those hyper-sensitive people end up running off those that make some of the better, more objective contributions. That's too bad. Wish it wasn't that way so often.

At least you hang in there with it, and take "the high road".

Thanks for your contributions. I wish more people would just "check their egos/feelings at the door" and at least consider many aspects of the debate at hand.

Folks just keep "wiping up the same old spilled milk, and wringing out the same old tired rag" what, with this civility thing in different flavors, and other tired old subjects, over, and over, and over, and over, again...

But, what the hell, it's an open forum.

KU5Q
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K9FON
Member

Posts: 1012




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« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2009, 08:16:58 PM »

I think a lot of people pop off on here bcause well, they can get away with it! If some of these guys acted like they do on here to someone in public they either would get a knuckle sandwich, a body slam, or get a verbal lashing. Its easier and safer to "hide behind the keybord" (kinda like hiding behind a mic. on CB!) than it is to act out in public.
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N5LRZ
Member

Posts: 0




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« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2009, 04:43:24 AM »

Re FON...

OOOOOH REALLLLLLYYYY....

I would like to know what highway and or road you drive to work on.  Because where I drive to work and go to the grocery store people drivers of vehicles flip each other off all the time, observed social interactions.  AND I EVEN do it myself on a fairly routine basis.
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WT0A
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Posts: 922




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« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2009, 02:02:07 PM »

RE lrz
Yeah and u can pick your nose in ur car too, nobody will notice.
Glen
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W5RRP
Member

Posts: 12




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« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2009, 05:32:10 PM »

Okay everybody, help me out on this one.  Exactly when and where did unacceptable behavior become accpetable in the culture of the United States?  I would appreciate it if you could share serious thought on this subject with me.  Thanks.  Ron W5RRP
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KB3HJK
Member

Posts: 97




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« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2009, 06:28:25 PM »

This - EHam and the internet, has nothing to do with actual, on-the-air ham radio. I have never encountered anything uncival on the air. I haver had run across a truly rude person in any QSO. Now - a DX pileup, that's another story, but it's supposed to be war. That's part of fun. Read AC6V's great dxing book, it provides some good insight.

One exception - 14.275. Just avoid it, although a well placed drop dead to the idiots on there is not the worst thing on earth.


Kevin
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N2EY
Member

Posts: 3877




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« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2009, 06:58:20 PM »

W5RRP asks: "Exactly when and where did unacceptable behavior become accpetable in the culture of the United States?"

Well, that depends on how you define "unacceptable behavior". And I mean that seriously - what one person considers acceptable, another might consider beyond the pale.

I don't think there was any one incident or time that things changed. Rather it was a lot of little things over time, adding up.

But here's what I noticed about electronic media.

I remember when broadcasting was governed by a strict set of rules about content. Sometimes the rules got a little silly, such as showing young married couples sleeping in twin beds, but the rules were taken seriously. There was even a "Seal of Good Practice" and such.

It wasn't that unacceptable behavior didn't happen; it was that the media of the time decided not to show it.

But then some programs appeared that pushed the limits - and got good ratings. Soon other shows pushed the limits farther, and got even better ratings. Pretty soon the "Seal of Good Practice" disappeared.

Another factor was technology. It used to be that most people did not have access to mass media - at least not from the sending end. Consider how things were 40-odd years ago: Americans had print media, films, radio and TV, but it was almost all one-way. Sure we had freedom of speech and the press, but access to radio and TV transmitters, the movies, and printed media were controlled by a relative few, and by the high cost of production. The few spoke and wrote, the many listened, watched and read. Even things like "talk radio" were controlled by the few who determined which callers got on the air, and who could cut off anyone for any reason.

Amateur radio had existed from the dawn of radio, but it required a license to transmit, the equipment was expensive and required skill to set up and operate. Most important, amateur radio was more about "radio for its own sake" than it was about the content.

By the late 1960s most Americans had been on the receiving end of electronic and other media for most if not all of their lives. And it was precisely at that time the CB boom happened.

CB back then wasn't really about radio; it was about being able to talk back rather than just having to listen. The technology was simple, easy to use, and most of all inexpensive. Although licenses were technically required, after a few years nobody really bothered, and the use of anonymous "handles" became the rule. FCC was overwhelmed; they'd never imagined that millions of Americans would simply ignore their rules. But they did, and the result was pretty much a free-for-all.

Then came the internet. Millions of people online, computers and access everywhere, and it's all low cost and easy to use. Almost anybody can write almost anything, and people will read it. Like cb, people can be anonymous and take on personas very different than reality. Except for a few moderated venues, much of the internet is pretty much a free-for-all, too. And again, it's not about computers and communication; it's about being able to talk back.

The problem with all this is that technology precedes sociology; we get new gadgets and only after a while do we really think about how they should be used. Just look at the driving-while-texting idea...

Just some ideas...waddya think?

73 de Jim, N2EY
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W5RRP
Member

Posts: 12




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« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2009, 07:21:06 PM »

Jim,

I think you are on the right track.  It would seem that the small degree of unanimity in the current modes of immediate communication has begun to overflow into face-to-face communication, and in many ways emboldens people to say and do things they never would have done in the past.  The interesting thing seems to be the reluctance of people to challenge those who act in an unacceptable manner.  And, I guess it is all complicated by the fact that when someone does respond, that response is usually more unacceptable than the original behavior.

A large part of the problem today seems to be that a  lot of people have no respect or acceptance for any view other than their own.  Many in our culture today hear something they don’t agree with, and they are only willing to scream and jump up and down, instead of listening and talking (in a civil manner).  John
Danforth talks about this in the context of the U.S. Senate in his book “Faith and Politics.”

Thanks, Jim, for your input.

vy 73,
Ron W5rrp
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W5RRP
Member

Posts: 12




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« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2009, 07:27:31 PM »

Sometimes I really dislike spell checker.  In the second sentence of the above post I am speaking of "anonymity."  

Sorry about that,
Ron
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