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Author Topic: AGM vs Gel Battery for FT-897D?  (Read 10845 times)
W5WSS
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« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2014, 10:31:03 PM »

My Yellow top is 6 years old. I installed it new as a direct replacement in an old 1990 Ford Taurus wagon. So not only does it supply the automobile but also to power the HF rig and Tokyo Hi Power HL 450b amplifier installed in the car when hill topping.

The stock alternator has been the sole source of charging for this battery.

6 years is a long time for an automotive application and No dead battery issues.

I am going to see how much longer it will provide reliable service.

I am impressed!

73
« Last Edit: October 07, 2014, 10:34:21 PM by W5WSS » Logged
W8JX
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« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2014, 03:49:29 AM »

My Yellow top is 6 years old. I installed it new as a direct replacement in an old 1990 Ford Taurus wagon. So not only does it supply the automobile but also to power the HF rig and Tokyo Hi Power HL 450b amplifier installed in the car when hill topping.

The stock alternator has been the sole source of charging for this battery.

6 years is a long time for an automotive application and No dead battery issues.

I am going to see how much longer it will provide reliable service.

I am impressed!

73

Honestly, 5 or 6 years with a stock battery is not unusual at all and I have seen stock batteries go longer. 6 volt battery in my tractor is 11 years old. Alternators in cars have been 100 amp or better for over 25 years now with birth of electronic fuel injection. 
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K5LXP
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« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2014, 08:23:42 AM »

5 or 6 years with a stock battery is not unusual at all and I have seen stock batteries go longer.

I think it matters where you live.  Since I've lived in ABQ I consistently get 7 years out of SLI batteries but we don't get the heat of Phoenix nor the sub-zero's of the midwest.  Heat accelerates a battery's demise, and cold diminishes its cranking ability.  So a battery that cranks my car over in my 55F garage may not work at all in Minnesota at -15F.  Another plus to living here is cars don't rust.  Smiley

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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W8JX
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« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2014, 09:40:36 AM »

5 or 6 years with a stock battery is not unusual at all and I have seen stock batteries go longer.

I think it matters where you live.  Since I've lived in ABQ I consistently get 7 years out of SLI batteries but we don't get the heat of Phoenix nor the sub-zero's of the midwest.  Heat accelerates a battery's demise, and cold diminishes its cranking ability.  So a battery that cranks my car over in my 55F garage may not work at all in Minnesota at -15F.  Another plus to living here is cars don't rust.  Smiley

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM

What you say has merit but todays cars generally have 4 or small V6 engines and use a lighter weight oil too vs car of days of old and as such place a lot less demand on battery starting.
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N8YQX
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« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2014, 11:58:42 AM »

Today for portable I would not lug heavy gel cell batteries. I would use lithium. It is more expensive for sure but it supports more charge cycles and has about 4x as much stored power per pound vs  lead gel cells. If you are going to lug a 40 lb battery you would do better to lug a 40lb generator. There a several 1000 watt or less generators out there and gas is about 6.3 pounds a gallon.

Can you buy a generic lithium or nimh battery? I would be interested in a solution like that. The closet solution I can think of is R/C battery pack, but they're not in the 13.8V range.

I think most lithium chemistry is around 3.7V, so would you put about 4 in series?
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73,
N8YQX
W8JX
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« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2014, 01:09:07 PM »

I think most lithium chemistry is around 3.7V, so would you put about 4 in series?

Yes, a electric car has a lot of cells in series. Most are in packs or 24 or 48 volts batteries that are also in series.
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N3QE
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« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2014, 07:34:51 PM »

Can you buy a generic lithium or nimh battery? I would be interested in a solution like that. The closet solution I can think of is R/C battery pack, but they're not in the 13.8V range.

Sure thing, for lithium-ion: http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/products/12v-300ah-lithium-ion-battery/

NIMH batteries are pretty much just like NiCads were in the past, assemble from cells yourself or have the vendor weld the tabs together for you. e.g: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/HR-DUX(10.0AH)F2X5/SY148-F025-ND/1203861
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 07:37:07 PM by N3QE » Logged
KC2MMI
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« Reply #37 on: Yesterday at 05:17:53 PM »

Those companies that make both AGM and Gel batteries all say about the same things about the two. Gel is more sensitive to damage from overcharging, it needs a lower voltage and not all chargers can match that. But when properly charged, gel also will have something like 2x-4x the number of deep discharge cycles that AGM can provide. Gel simply gives you more cycles, with a battery of the same form factor and amperage rating. IF your charger is designed to properly maintain it.

Wet lead is still the most economical way to go, but a sealed battery (AGM or gel) won't eat your clothing and carpet, or emit hydrogen during routine charging, or acid vapors. "Golf cart" batteries tend to be the most economical for deep cycle wet batteries.

Lithium-whatever is a bit more like religion than science. Every maker contradicts the next one, agreeing only that lithium batteries should have 5x-10x the number of deep cycles, and a comparably high price. Most of the folks who actually MAKE lithium cells, insist that unless you use an equally expensive battery management system (BMS) they may die very early, or catch fire and explode. LiFePO4 chemistry is the only one that doesn't use a flammable electrolyte, supposedly it is about 10% less powerful than all the others trading this off for safety.

If you've got lots of money, and are willing to do lots of homework, lithium might be the cheapest in the long term--if it lasts that long. But it will certainly cost way more, which is a waste if you're only using it for occasional backup power.
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W8JX
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« Reply #38 on: Yesterday at 05:45:49 PM »


Lithium-whatever is a bit more like religion than science. Every maker contradicts the next one, agreeing only that lithium batteries should have 5x-10x the number of deep cycles, and a comparably high price. Most of the folks who actually MAKE lithium cells, insist that unless you use an equally expensive battery management system (BMS) they may die very early, or catch fire and explode. LiFePO4 chemistry is the only one that doesn't use a flammable electrolyte, supposedly it is about 10% less powerful than all the others trading this off for safety.


Lithium is a lot of science and very proven. There are different types but some like those used in cars are good for thousands of cycles. We have a Chevy Volt which has a 440lb, 370v 17kw Lithium battery pack that is also heated and cooled as needed. It the case of cars they generally only use 70 to 80% of capacity in normal use which is said to extend life a lot as does maintaining optimum operating temperature. (like I said a lot of science) I would think same would apply with portable Lithium batteries.
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