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Author Topic: ARRL Concession  (Read 35370 times)
KF7CG
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Posts: 817




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« Reply #105 on: July 07, 2014, 08:13:06 AM »

Our badges identify us as Active members of the countywide ARES group and lists other associated memberships Skywarn, RACES for those that are also members there. Our members that are also part of the official EMA, EMS and other agencies/groups also have that noted.

We work with multiple city/county agencies as requested. Always professional, always ready to serve when needed.

KF7CG
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KF7VXA
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Posts: 455




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« Reply #106 on: July 21, 2014, 09:28:00 PM »


I'd have never put on my Police Uniform everyday if I was paralyzed by liability. Poop occurs.

73's John KF7VXA

Your employer and their insurance would of covered any legal liable action, to include an error, that would of occurred during the time of your employment.  Apples and oranges comparison.

Not if I did something outside of the scope of my authority or made a bad or even minor mistake. The officer is just added to the list of all to sue.
It happens more than you would think. Anyone can be sued for anything. Just because you have a badge and creds, does not mean you will not get sued. If you are in any way in the wrong, City, County or the Government will put you out as the sacrificial lamb to save their own butts. They may try to cover you if they can, but at the first sight of blood, your on your own. Of course, today they just lie and cover up the best they can.
As to ordering 1000 needles vs. 10,000 needles, I'll keep all messages and be sure I get a correct conformation as well as the name and ID of the person the message was sent to and came from. It's called covering your butt.

In the big cities, it's true, the storm troopers (I don't like what LE, H.S. has turned into anymore, not what it was in my day, this is not to include all LEO's. Many are there for the right reason) don't want anyone without a badge, it's them against you. In smaller, rural communities, we are pretty much on our own, if we don't help each other, no one else will until it's too late.
There is a sense of community in rural areas that people who have lived in cities will never know of, it's not just your neighborhood, it's the entire community.
We do for each other. In many cases, you need a new septic system, a neighbor with a backhoe will come and dig and help you put it. When they need something, you are there for them. It's not even barter, the amount of work involved does not ever come into the picture. Not true with many of the move in's who want Idaho beauty to be Kalifornia. We are also much more self sufficient than most in urban and cities, we have to be.
There was one lawsuit here involving SAR (all volunteer). We are close to a small part of WY. that is only assessable thru our county in Idaho. A skier at a ski hill in WY. went out of bounds, got lost, walked thru a river several times and turned himself into a human ice cube. Our SAR team was called and looked till it was dark, in WY, not Idaho where they are based. WY. was notified and said to pull off, they would look for him in the AM, they never bothered to come out that day. They found him dead , hours later the next day. Both counties were sued by the family, but not one SAR member was included in the suit. He was dead the first day and within hours (or less) of him getting wet, not the next day. He was in the wrong, but the counties got sued anyway. I don't know what the settlement was, if any.
All that said, I'll continue to be a part of the local Ares/Races group, all good people, no cowboys, no save the world types. If someone manages to sue me, I'll BK them unless I really did cause the thing I got sued for, then I'll take responsibility. I don't have much, a little fish, hardly worth the effort of a bottom feeder, they want the big bucks the Gov agencys, counties have.

Our Government, courts and liberal ideas have turned this county into a big poop hole, we've lost what was great about America. I won't lay down for them. Neither will all the people who still respect the principals this country was founded on. Yea, I guess I'm a red neck; a proud one.
To me, all of this is no different that the person who watches another get mugged and just turns away. Unless you are old or unable to help, your just a part of the new world thinking if you don't help. I've been hit, punched, shot at and tore up many times (So. Ca. PD). If I see you in need of help, I'll be there. We are all being conditioned to call a cop, let the Government do it, run and hide, duck and cover, don't get involved, be Sheepeople, B.S. Do as you wish. My Lord died on the cross to save me, I'll do the best I can to help others within the scope of my authority, and just maybe outside of it to save a life. No. I'm not a save the world type person, but I will do my part when and where I can. When operating in an Ares/Races capacity, I'm there for support of those with the badges and creds. I know the limits, I knew the limits as an LEO.
When operating as a volunteer of Ares/Races, I am covered by Work Comp in my county if injured. If I screw up and get sued, I'm on my own. One has to use the brain that God gave you.
Look at all the Military who have given their lives so you and I can live in what was once a free country, and your worried about being sued when lives are at stake. Everyone has to make up their own mind. If you don't want to be a part of Ares/Races because of fear of being sued, someone else will take your place.

We mostly do public service, but emergency's happen at public events. I just did a marathon, no bombs went off, but they did in Boston. Volunteers with coms rose to the occasion there and will continue to do so if and when the need arises.
The Government has been MIA in more than a few big disasters for days. Hams were the only one's with communications for days.
There is a need for what we do. If your worry about liability, then maybe you should stick to rag chewing and DX, me and thousands of others will pick up the slack.

If the ARRL wants out, fine, get the heck out. There will still be community groups in many areas, I know there will be where I live.


73's John
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 10:16:54 PM by KF7VXA » Logged
KF7VXA
Member

Posts: 455




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« Reply #107 on: July 21, 2014, 10:08:09 PM »

There's an awful lot of whining going on about something that amounts to not much.
This has absolutely nothing to do with wackers.

It simply has to do with reality. Quit getting your knickers all in a knot.

Does ARES do Emergency and Disaster communication. Yes. Yes it does. But those things don't happen very often. And that's a good thing.
The vast majority (80-90% or more) of the time, ARES is actually helping with pre-planned events like Marathons, walk-a-thons, etc.
The whole thing about this article in QST, simply aligns the wording to more accurately reflect reality.

I don't know how things are done where you live. But I am a DEC in Ohio. And I'll tell you how it's done in my district.
(I'll also wager that this is how it's done in most places.)
1) ARES is not a first responder. We do not self deploy, ever. If you are in this for the blue tights and red cape, you're in the wrong place. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
1a) If we don't get called, it's not a bad thing. It means normal things are working as they should. Sit back, pop some popcorn, and watch a movie, or some ESPN. Relax.
2) The days of the untrained volunteer are over. NIMS/ICS training is required by the agencies we serve and train with. ARES volunteers need to know it in order to integrate and work with people who do emergency response for a living. Sure you can be in ARES without taking the training. But you're probably not going to be doing very much.
2a) Failing to take the training, is like going to school without ever studying or doing your homework. Third grade could be the six longest years of your life. This is the first step leading towards  wackerdom.
3) Light bars are for sworn law enforcement officers, fire fighters, rescue squads/ambulances, and tow trucks. We can't tell you not to have one, but we strongly recommend against their use, unless you fall into one of the previously mentioned categories. This is another step towards wackerdom.
4) I sincerely hope we never, ever have to do some of the things we train for. Because if we do, then stuff got broken, and people got hurt. It's just not something you should ever wish for.
5) There are lots of examples out there of what constitutes a wacker. Unless you want to be (in this case justifiably) laughed at, ridiculed and mocked, don't be that guy.
5a) You're still going to be mocked by some people who either don't understand, don't want to understand, or refuse to understand what we do. It's not illegal for someone to be ignorant, or stupid. Learn to get over it.
6) If you are following your training, doing what you are supposed to do, and not doing what you are not supposed to do, then you are not a wacker. It doesn't matter what anyone else says.


Excellent post. I could not agree more. I can't speak for other groups, but so called Wackers would be invited to leave our group or outright tossed out. I'm sure it's harder to control in larger groups, there are wanna be's everywhere. They have no place in an Ares/Races group. Our group operates as yours does, the way they were designed to operate. We have reverse 911 to call an activation as well as the repeater. We don't self activate, we operate as a group, and people know what is expected of them.
If we didn't, we would not have the cooperation and respect that we have from our public officials. Of course, we are small town. It has to be harder to control in larger urban areas, but controlled it must be. We are not first responders, we help as assigned by the Police, FD or what ever agency is in charge. If you don't like the assignment, go home, but don't expect to come back unless there is a good reason for leaving and are excused. A boring post is not a reason, but many times, that's where you get stuck, most times, you can have a little fun with the work you do also. It's all training in reality for the day we all hope never comes, a real emergency. It's great to be able to summon help for the little things that occur when doing public events, but mostly, we just help them to run more efficiently.
Weather seems to be the biggest events we face in many areas. We are very effective working with Skywarn to help them get a picture of the weather event or as an Ares/Races unit helping with whatever communication needs to be done as asked for.
We are not LEO's, Fireman or SAR, we help and do as asked to help an event run smoother or help as asked in times of emergency.
That's all. Those who think all who help others are "Wackers", must have been rejected from their local group, why else would there be so much hate for those who only wish to help others in good times and bad.

73's John KF7VXA


« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 10:20:35 PM by KF7VXA » Logged
KD0SFY
Member

Posts: 127




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« Reply #108 on: July 22, 2014, 09:34:56 AM »


If the ARRL wants out, fine, get the heck out. There will still be community groups in many areas, I know there will be where I live.


73's John

The ARRL is not getting out of anything.  This has squat to do with liability.  ARES is completely unaffected by this move. 
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5888




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« Reply #109 on: July 22, 2014, 11:03:58 AM »

All the ARRL is doing is rocking the boat to possibly gain some attention.  Changing policy to attract more customers (members) is always done, no matter who the company/group is--and that's all that's happening.
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KF7VXA
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Posts: 455




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« Reply #110 on: Yesterday at 06:57:30 AM »

I'll wager that those uniform shirts and badges identify you as an auxiliary of the local EMA, however.  The 'wackers' that are being spoken of here (in most part) are the ones with orange reflective vests and those "HAM RADIO" badges that are available on the internet.  

Back when I was a part of the local EMA like you are, all I had--and needed--was a picture ID card something like what a Massachusetts license used to look like when they first started issuing picture licenses.  A laminated card with the agency name, my picture, my position/duty in the agency and my signature, with a clip on holder for it.  Nothing else.

Added--Something like the type card that the ARRL VEC team issues its certified testers, plus a picture on it.  BTW, happy 4th to all as well.


A shirt or vest ID'ing you as an Ares member is good public relations. The public just seeing a person with a radio does not generally know who or what agency or group they work for. A bright vest also helps our safety.
If one does wear a shirt or vest with any kind of Ares radio logo on it, they should be sure to conduct themselves as professionals.

I know during the many runs and bike events we help out with, the people in the event will many times wave or say "Thank You" as they go by, they know who we are and are thankful for the support and extra safety we provide.
The shirt or vest shows who we are and our support for the public and also serves as a tool to get more interested in Amateur radio.

I get so tired of those who think that all Ares/Races members run around in old police cars or SUV's with stickers all over them, it's just not the case. If any member of our group did so, they would be asked to tone it down or be invited to leave.

I think those who call other Wackers are just wackers themselves who got asked to leave their group in their old police cars with a blue light on the dash.
Public perception is everything. If you have a member who is a wanna be cop, maybe he or she should not be included in your group. There is no room for that type of person, if you don't understand the mission of Ares/Races and abide by it, you have no business being in the group.

Public service is the vast majority of the work we do, but there are those few times there is a real need for the communication we can provide. None of us hope for an emergency call out, but if and when they come (and they have), we want to be as cohesive and professional group as possible. I know the limits as does everyone else in our group. We do as directed by our county EC or other officials, no more, and within the scope of our authority, which is limited.

Those of you who hate Races will be the same one's in an emergency getting on your radio, clogging up the available frequency's asking  "What's going on", or trying to be net control. Bad on you.

John KF7VXA
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 07:18:48 AM by KF7VXA » Logged
N8AUC
Member

Posts: 76




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« Reply #111 on: Yesterday at 08:12:06 PM »


A shirt or vest ID'ing you as an Ares member is good public relations. The public just seeing a person with a radio does not generally know who or what agency or group they work for. A bright vest also helps our safety.
If one does wear a shirt or vest with any kind of Ares radio logo on it, they should be sure to conduct themselves as professionals.

I know during the many runs and bike events we help out with, the people in the event will many times wave or say "Thank You" as they go by, they know who we are and are thankful for the support and extra safety we provide.
The shirt or vest shows who we are and our support for the public and also serves as a tool to get more interested in Amateur radio.

I get so tired of those who think that all Ares/Races members run around in old police cars or SUV's with stickers all over them, it's just not the case. If any member of our group did so, they would be asked to tone it down or be invited to leave.

I think those who call other Wackers are just wackers themselves who got asked to leave their group in their old police cars with a blue light on the dash.
Public perception is everything. If you have a member who is a wanna be cop, maybe he or she should not be included in your group. There is no room for that type of person, if you don't understand the mission of Ares/Races and abide by it, you have no business being in the group.

Public service is the vast majority of the work we do, but there are those few times there is a real need for the communication we can provide. None of us hope for an emergency call out, but if and when they come (and they have), we want to be as cohesive and professional group as possible. I know the limits as does everyone else in our group. We do as directed by our county EC or other officials, no more, and within the scope of our authority, which is limited.

Those of you who hate Races will be the same one's in an emergency getting on your radio, clogging up the available frequency's asking  "What's going on", or trying to be net control. Bad on you.

John KF7VXA

I've had that happen at public service events too, where event participants are waving and thanking us for our efforts during the event.
Anyone can help during a public service event. You don't have to be an ARES member, and you don't need NIMS and ICS training to help with public service events.
Although the people who are ARES members are typically "the cream of the crop" when it comes to volunteers at public service events.
They know from experience and training how to conduct themselves during a directed net, and how to follow instructions.

As for VXA's last sentence, there are some people who refuse to register with ARES, because they don't want to be bothered to take the required training.
When asked they usually reply, "when the s*it hits the fan, and you need me, you know where to find me". But should a real emergency ever happen, and we get called "for real", we're not going to be able to use them because they aren't trained.

And as for "authority"? That's easy. We don't have any. So it's not a problem. That's one of the things you learn in the training.
All ARES does, is provide a service when requested. Nothing more, and nothing less.
The quality of that service is kept high through training, education, and practice.

73 de N8AUC
Eric


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