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Author Topic: Get over it! Old Ham vs new Ham  (Read 9498 times)
W4MLO
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Posts: 30




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« on: October 28, 2009, 09:41:45 PM »

The RULES constantly change! Born in 1959, I have been "addicted to radio" since the late 60's. I was a Sears "walkie talkier" on a pair that my oldest sister Patt gave me for my 8th Christmas. The next year she gave me a Radio Shack 101 Electronic Projects Kit(I will love her forever for that!). I will never forget that first crystal radio reciver I "made" with it. In 1972 my 8th grade science fair project was computer logic. I used 3 rat shack knife switches and the light off of a stolen road barricade to demonstrate the difference in a (and) & a (or) gate. The only reason I got an honorable mention was because the only judge that knew what the heck it was, was my newbee algebra teacher (Maxwell Cornelius) that was fresh out of Georgia Tech. While in high school, I became a SWL listener on a Realstic DX-160 that my Dad bought me at a flea market while on vacation in California. I became a CB'er in my sophomore year with a Hammerland double-sideband transmitter that a local screwed me on. I soon bought a Johnson mobile(at 14 I worked at a gas station after school for $.50 an hour to pay for it). A friend who shall remain calless had a Yaesu FT-101 opened up to 10 Meters and a Moonraker. He soon got his Amateur ticket and left me behind. Fast forward to 1991. The tech ticket became available. I got it first try and passed General theory same day(I still have the CTSC). Could not learn code, For whatever reason, (later learned that I have hearing issues but that is beside the point). Bought gear... repeaters were boring. Sold gear due to financial hardship. I gave the hobby up. When the code was dropped, I passed General the next day at the Dalton Ga. hamfest. Feb, 29 2007.


The point I am trying to make is

I have worked just as hard for my ticket as anybody before me.

And my ticket is just as good as yours.

Please do not hold the fact that I was born later than you against me.

73 W4MLO


Milo
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N3OX
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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2009, 09:55:08 PM »

"Please do not hold the fact that I was born later than you against me. "

I won't.  You weren't.

:-)
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73,
Dan
http://www.n3ox.net

Monkey/silicon cyborg, beeping at rocks since 1995.
N2EY
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Posts: 3877




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« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2009, 05:20:58 AM »

"I have worked just as hard for my ticket as anybody before me."

Probably not. I could tell you all kinds of stories of amateurs who worked much harder to get a license and get on the air.

But that's not the point.

"And my ticket is just as good as yours."

That's true, but it's not the point either.

What IS the point is that what really matters is what a ham does after the license is earned.  

The license is just the beginning. The first step in the journey, not the destination.

It's also important to remember that, except in a few cases, the new hams didn't change the rules. The FCC did, often against the stated comments of the majority. Blame the FCC, not the new hams, if you don't like the new rules.

73 de Jim, N2EY
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WB5JEO
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Posts: 805




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« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2009, 09:43:56 AM »

It's about as silly as someone considering themselves a better driver because when they were licensed, the road test had to be done with a manual transmission. There was a good reason for testing that way at the time. If they hadn't, many would be licensed without a demonstrated ability to operate a great many cars. The code requirement made a lot of sense from the beginning. For many years after phone was common, the whole reason government encouraged amateur radio was facilitated by code proficiency, not the least of which was the pool of code-proficient radio operators available in wartime. Code proficiency requirements would have much less to recommend them today. Only the amateur service retains Morse as a mode. It's a choice, just as a manual transmission is a choice, and few drivers would ever be surprised by being forced to operate one to get safely from one place to another.

I think it's pretty clear that the basis for the better-than-you attitude of some who were licensed through code proficiency is that the reality is that almost all amateurs passed (and pass) their written tests by virtue of rote learning from test prep manuals of pool questions. So the code test was the only part that required the applicant to actually be able to apply some knowledge or skill. It was the equivalent of having to test theory before an oral board that tested true knowledge and understanding, something relatively few licensed hams could pass. Testing only ever meant that you probably knew the rules and barely enough theory to stay out of trouble. For most, any real technical proficiency comes later, according to their individual talents and desires. But it's always been the case that the old timers in any field brag on it. But it's just human nature and means little else. (I can impress the kids in the organization that I'm one of the most senior paramedics in the state, but the truth is that the young ones were far better trained and still have fully functional spinal columns.) And in most things, the "good old days" are only the good old days because our selective memories tend to filter out the bad stuff.  

However, I congratulate you on being able to feel like a downtrodden youth at 50. Wink

(And of course, I retain my original call and Advanced ticket as evidence that I'm from the good old "code days" when the distinctive odor of hot radios smelled like "real radio" and the tink-tink of cooling glass marked the end of a day's real hamming.)
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N3DF
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Posts: 252




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« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2009, 11:41:25 AM »

The General Class license (and its predecessors) has always been obtainable by motivated High School (and many younger) students and, while a source of pride, is not considered a monumental achievement by most of us. What have you done with yours?
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Neil N3DF
N5LRZ
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Posts: 0




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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2009, 12:08:02 PM »

Re Get Over...

The great rift started when the the FCC began to delete the code.  The Old Guard had to endure the hardship of 5 wpm to even get on the air, 13 wpm for HF and 20 for the big Extra.  SOME have even progressed to well over 30 wpm--I KNOW because I had the honor of logging for one during a Field Day.  Having achieved the speed of 18 wpm at one time on my way to 20 (before they dropped the code) I can identify with the statement that learning code and building speed SUCKED.

The Old Guard went thru the hell of the code.  As such in my eyes they have earned the privledge of looking down on those who did not have to walk the walk in the the halls of pain known as, THE CODE.  

BUT FEAR NOT, time has a way of changing everything.  Those Old Guard people are all going to croak aka die aka RIP one day/all of them.  Then you will be the old Azz Hole at the top that the then youth will be throwing bricks at.  Wheel keeps on a turnin.
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K4DPK
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« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2009, 03:35:25 PM »

Hi Milo...

Congratulations on your recent entrance into ham radio.

The mention of a hearing problem caught my attention.  I personally can't hear a thing above 3,000 cycles, but I consider that advantageous in receiving, since it eliminates a lot of interference.

But your comments did make me curious and required me to ask myself, what hearing difficulty would prevent my recognizing a tone at some frequency?  I can't think of any, except total loss of hearing. It just seems to me if you can hear people talking, you can hear tones on those frequencies.  Maybe there's some medical reason why this isn't true.

My Uncle George was in the Signal Corps, and taught me the code when he came home from WWII.  We did an experiment one time, where he held a buzzer in his hand, and I sent him code on the buzzer.  We wrapped a towel around it so neither of us could hear it, but he could still copy at better than 10 wpm.  In the past, I've suggested that to other hams as an alternative to a doctor's excuse, but they didn't seem receptive.

In any case, I think if you have an issue with whoever it is you're calling an old-timer, you take it up with him.  There are quite a few of us old-timers on here who are try and help the new ones (or others, sometimes) when we can, but I keep hearing so much of this generalized bitching about us, I'm having second thoughts whether it's even worthwhile.

Phil C. Sr.
k4dpk
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OLDFART13
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« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2009, 06:58:08 PM »

Milo,

You seem like a nice guy.  Don't take offense to this but I bet I worked a lot harder to obtain my ticket then you did.

That being said, I am no better than you are and I don't have a better license then you.  I just had to work harder to get it.

73, Steve
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W0DV
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Posts: 200




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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2009, 12:30:13 AM »

OLDFART13 said this...."Why do these anti-code bigots keep bringing this up??? Folks the war is over and we lost!!! Ham Radio lost!!! The do nothing to earn a ticket welfare hams with a worthless license won!!"

Then OLDFART13 says this..."That being said, I am no better than you are and I don't have a better license then you. I just had to work harder to get it."

 Make up your mind! First you refer to newer hams as being a "welfare ham" with a "worthless license".
Then you say "I don't have a better license then you"

You need some professional help.
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OLDFART13
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« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2009, 11:05:54 AM »

Well apparently some lame a$$ Extra extra-lite has nothing better to do than try to stir up the pot.  What a waste of a good 2X1 callsign.  Of course he had to buy that call that he never could earn.

ROTFLMAO.  

Bye Bye Troll.
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N5LRZ
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« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2009, 11:18:50 AM »

Re KR0V...

Just because we, USA, dropped two nukes on the Japs during WW2 and ended the war as winners why shouldnt anyone who lost family to the nukes love us.

Just because someone wins the fighting/war  does not mean that the hate stops.

But the old guard will die.  BUT somehow I do believe that just as the new guys of today become the old geeeeezers of tomorrow something will pop up to keep the hate alive--different topic same result.


And the wheel keeps on a turnin.
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N2EY
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« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2009, 03:13:20 PM »

WB5JEO writes: "It's about as silly as someone considering themselves a better driver because when they were licensed, the road test had to be done with a manual transmission."

But that's not silly. All else being equal, ability to drive a stick shift *does* make someone a better driver.

WB5JEO: "There was a good reason for testing that way at the time. If they hadn't, many would be licensed without a demonstrated ability to operate a great many cars."

Yep. But the percentage of manual-transmission cars today is quite low - maybe 10%. OTOH, the number of ham rigs that can do Morse Code, and the amount it is actually used, is quite high.

WB5JEO: "The code requirement made a lot of sense from the beginning. For many years after phone was common, the whole reason government encouraged amateur radio was facilitated by code proficiency, not the least of which was the pool of code-proficient radio operators available in wartime."

That may have been one reason, but it wasn't the only reason, or even the major one, since a large percentage of amateurs would be too old or otherwise unqualified to serve in wartime.

WB5JEO: "Code proficiency requirements would have much less to recommend them today."

The main reason is simple: Hams use the mode.

However, calling 5 wpm "proficiency" isn't really accurate.

WB5JEO: "Only the amateur service retains Morse as a mode."

On the HF bands, it's the second most popular mode.

WB5JEO: "I think it's pretty clear that the basis for the better-than-you attitude of some who were licensed through code proficiency is that the reality is that almost all amateurs passed (and pass) their written tests by virtue of rote learning from test prep manuals of pool questions."

I don't think that's true at all. Sure, some folks just study the question pool until they can pass, but I think a lot of folks at least try to learn and understand the material.

Of course before FCC forced the VE system on us 25+ years ago, the writtens were a different game, too.

WB5JEO: "So the code test was the only part that required the applicant to actually be able to apply some knowledge or skill."

I see it a bit differently.

I think what bothered some folks about the code tests so much was this: They required most new hams to learn something really new to them.

The material on the written exams can be learned a little at a time, in various ways. A considerable number of people who have technical backgrounds already know most of what's on the written exams, and need only to fill in a few gaps about the rules and regs. The written exams are "book learning" and a lot of folks are pretty good at it.

But except for a few folks who learned Morse Code in the military, or the Boy Scouts, or someplace like that, getting a ham license meant they had to learn it from scratch. And because it's a skill and not book learning, they had to practice, keep to a schedule, etc.

IOW, it acted as sort of Great Equalizer. Whether someone was in the third grade or a Ph.D. in EE, unless they had learned Morse Code someplace else, they had to start from scratch with dits and dahs and learn it. That REALLY bothered some folks' egos. Worse, they might find themselves bested by people they considered their inferiors, like young people, people with less education, and people who weren't in technical fields. Thus the resentment and opposition.

WB5JEO: "It was the equivalent of having to test theory before an oral board that tested true knowledge and understanding, something relatively few licensed hams could pass."

I could. I think many hams could, if they had to.

In fact, it used to be that way. Until the early 1960s, the written exams other than Novice were not all multiple choice. Instead, they were a mixture of multiple choice, diagram drawing, essays, and problems where you had to not only get the answer but show your work. Trained FCC examiners decided if your answers were good enough.

And you did not know the questions ahead of time, only the general areas covered.  

WB5JEO: "Testing only ever meant that you probably knew the rules and barely enough theory to stay out of trouble. For most, any real technical proficiency comes later, according to their individual talents and desires."

Look at an ARRL License Manual from before about 1978 and see if that's true, particularly for the higher-level written exams like Advanced and Extra.

WB5JEO: "But it's always been the case that the old timers in any field brag on it."

Some do, yes. But in some cases, there are real differences between then-and-now.  

73 de Jim, N2EY
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W0DV
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Posts: 200




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« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2009, 06:30:48 PM »

OLDFART13 says..."Well apparently some lame a$$ Extra extra-lite has nothing better to do than try to stir up the pot. What a waste of a good 2X1 callsign. Of course he had to buy that call that he never could earn."

I just pointed out what you posted Smiley to your own shame. You are a fraud.
I think it's painfully obvious to everyone who reads your posts as to what sort of "ham" you are. I don't need to point it out.
LOL

KR0V
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N5LRZ
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« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2009, 11:40:28 AM »

re KR0V...

Just because the Japanese lost WW2 because we nuked them does not mean that they cannot still harbor resentment in todays world

Just because one loses the war does not mean one cannot continue to dislike the enemey.
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N5LRZ
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« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2009, 11:40:46 AM »

re KR0V...

Just because the Japanese lost WW2 because we nuked them does not mean that they cannot still harbor resentment in todays world

Just because one loses the war does not mean one cannot continue to dislike the enemey.
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