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Author Topic: A Legal Alternative for 11 Meter Operators!  (Read 1584 times)
MPEARSAL
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Posts: 3




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« on: March 09, 2001, 02:21:33 AM »

I thought I'd include this since so many of you choose to make derogatory remarks about CBer's rather than stick to the topic. (Code vs. No-Code, Restructuring, etc...) I personally like the code but you guys use the issue to take cheap shots at 11m ops. You should realize that many 11m ops visit these forums seeking to learn about ham radio, NOT be insulted. 73.

Hello fellow 11 meter enthusiasts,

I have a new idea. So much has been made of the fact that we (11m ops) have no real representation in DC while the amateur community has the ARRL. The USCBOA was a nice idea but seems to lack the organizational skills to get airborne. I got this idea while reading a ham forum thread where many amateurs were complaining about the ARRL allowing "chicken banders" to infiltrate the ham bands and vowing to cancel their membership. Well, here it goes.

JOIN THE ARRL! That's right; make them live up to their name. The AMERICAN (NOT Amateur ONLY) Radio Relay League. In the mid 60's, the number of CBer's outgrew the number of licensed amateurs. The price is $39.00/yr. and you need NOT be a licensed amateur to become a FULL member. You DO, however, need to be licensed for voting privileges though. I know that $39.00 is steep, but I've spent more on a power mic and this money REALLY does makes my voice louder. The 35 multiple choice Technician exam takes approx. 5 minutes to complete and the practice exams can be found on www.qrz.com as well as other popular ham sites. I'm sure there would be a bit of resistance in the beginning but the ARRL is made up of hams who are basically...politicians. That's right folks, let the first official lose "a close one" at the hands of an 11 meter "swing vote," and see how our "concerns" take on a little more importance. Here's a bonus, when you hear an old stodger cry "I'm canceling my membership," rejoice...that's called a two-for-one sale. Your vote no longer opposes theirs, it REPLACES it.

The kicker is that if you plan to be as vocal as I am, you need to run legal. I'm NOT preaching. I freebanded for over 10 years and LOVED it. However I send letters to my representatives and the FCC, so my house must be in order. Riley Hollingsworth himself can come to my QTH for a surprise visit. I sent a letter to my reps re. RM-9807 and asked why the FCC admitted that the MAJORITY of CBer's were in favor of dropping the 155 mi. limit rule, yet the ruling was swayed by "private interests," namely the ARRL and NAB. Not only did I receive a reply, but it included a reply from the FCC to an inquiry by my rep. Did it really make a difference?... maybe, maybe not, but I know at least three more souls know about this "voter's" displeasure. (An election year to boot!)

I sent a letter to Radio Shack (Tandy) in Fort Worth, TX re. their HTX-10 and its inability to be modified at their (RS's) request. I explained that there are some who may want the capability to "monitor" (;-P) the 11 meter band as well. I returned mine and told them that I would gladly pay the extra $50.00 to RF Ltd. for their Magnum 257(the modifiable version of the same rig) and will now purchase all my ham study material and 2m h/t elsewhere due to their policy. Again, did it make a difference...perhaps not, but at least they know that they’ve lost approx. $450.00 in sales plus restocking costs.

Remember, to be this vocal, you need to fly right. I miss freebanding and it gave me many many hours of pleasure over a ten year period, this is the best way I can give back to 11 meters. If you don't plan to quit freebanding, don't be too vocal and run a "common sense" set-up. Your ARRL vote still counts! I never ran amplifiers and worked the world with a Clear Channel Ranger AR-3500 (30 watt model) and a two element yagi. I also successfully encouraged many of fellow 11m ops to do the same. (Tech license, ARRL membership, & write reps.) It kills me when I hear hams flame us and there's little we can do because we don't want to attract the unwanted attention. Well, sometimes you have to defend yourself with the weapons the opposition gives you. The ARRL rates recently went up, you should hear the hams crying and threatening to cancel...go for it I say!

73 de Mark

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KB9UMT
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2001, 11:26:55 PM »

Hi Mark:

You have some good points but I really can not agree with what you are doing.  Rules are rules and the law is the law.  Talking over 150 miles on CB or running 1KW power is illegal and if you take the risk to do that activity and get caught then you should have to pay your due time...it is illegal yes but too many doing it and no inforcement...kind of like guns, anyone can get one without a licence and shot someone but is that right or legal?  I think much of the negitive that you read about on CB and 11 meters on these forums and others are by many of the same people that go from site to site to see how many chains they can pull for the day.  Anyway, I would say that the majority of Hams are too busy hamming it on the ham bands to worry about 11 meters unless of course the freebanders get into 10 meters.  I would also point out that many of the Ham ops out there came from 11 meters or started out with a CB and got more interested with radios and went Ham.  There are no doubt fine people on CB and I have many friends there. There also is no doubt that there are bad ops not only on CB but Ham radio too.  I would think that Ham radio and CB are just like other things in life...you have good ones and bad ones.

Now in reading your posting lets get to the meat of it.  You seem to be defending freebanding and what you are doing as a good thing yet telling others not to write or complain unless they are running "Legal".  I think this is the issue....it is just not legal. And then you talk about running 30 watts into a 2 element Quad and talked all over the world...doesn't surpise me at all!  I would think that 5 watts on a 1/4 wave vertical at peak solor would do the same with lots less interference also.  AND THIS ONE I WANT YOU TOO READ AND REALLY LISTEN TO YOURSELF ON:  " The 35 multiple choice Technician exam takes approx. 5 minutes to complete and the practice exams can be found on www.qrz.com as well as other popular ham sites"...IF IT IS THAT EASY THEN WHY DON'T YOU JUST TAKE THE TEST AND BECOME A HAM WITH PRIVILEGES....AND TAKE THE NEXT TO GENERAL AND PASS THE 5WPM CODE AND GO FOR WHAT YOU REALLY WANT.....LETS FACE IT FROM THE SOUNDS OF YOUR POSTING YOU LOVE RADIO...SO LEARN IT, RESPECT IT AND JUST DO IT!!

You seem like a good person Mark but I really think that rules and laws are in place for a reason and that you will have a very hard time trying to change them...and why would you want to ...Ham radio is free for anyone to join and learn.  Sorry that you feel the way you do about Ham Radio but I really think that if you dug a little deeper you would find a burden lifted by just doing what is right.

Well, you will see the norm here and all the negitive postings that maybe you wanted or didn't want but I really can not give you anything negitive about legal CB  but only postive on HAM RADIO and say to you I CHALLENGE YOU to reach inside and do what is right and take the test and have an open mind on Ham Radio and I would personally like to help you along the way if you would have any questions or problems that I could answer.  Have you really ever really tried to talk to some local hams about being interested in getting your license??  Have you meet any hams one on one and talked radio with them...you may find you have lots in common and the majority of us are not so bad!  

KB9UMT@ARRL.COM
KB9UMT DON
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K0RS
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Posts: 704




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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2001, 12:10:23 AM »

Ha Ha Ha.  The ARRL absolutely LOVES folks like you Mark. They will gladly take your money and send you QST. During the (long) time I was an ARRL member, I got the opporunity to vote on exactly NOTHING of any consequence.  Yes, occasionally a ballot would show up in the mailbox wanting me to vote for some lame, party line Director or Vice-Director.  What do you think is going to happen if you join the ARRL?  That one day a ballot will be sent out (at your prodding, no doubt) asking:  "Be it resolved--The ARRL will henceforth support 11 meter freebanding.  How do Ye vote--Yea or Nay?"  Get serious.  The ARRL Board of Directors has an agenda which you are free to support.  Not question, modify or contend.  Think about it Mark, when was the last time you saw a letter critical of the ARRL in QST?  Take a guess where letters and emails from "vocal" members go when they question the direction of ARRL policy.  Despite Dave Sumner's expansive editorials about how "democratic" the League is, you'll find out that the only opportunity you have to "vote" on anything is when once a year that renewal slip shows up and they ask you to "vote" with your checkbook on extending your membership.   Even if you could affect some change in ARRL policy, the recent debacle in amateur licensing reform should show you just how much influence the League has with the FCC these days (not).  So send in them dues Mark.  The ARRL staff loves you.  Maybe next year they can even increase their 401(k) contributions.
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MPEARSAL
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Posts: 3




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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2001, 02:32:25 AM »

Hi Don and Larry,

Thank you both for your replies. I shall try to adequately address your comments and concerns. I’d like to preface this by stating the true intent of this. I really do NOT want to see The ARRL “represent” 11 meter concerns; I just want them NOT to interfere with any rule making/changing proposals by legal CB/11 meter interest groups/individuals. By using its “lobbying” influence (what little is left) with the FCC, the league had a negative impact on RM-9807. RM-9807 would likely have been shot down by the ITU agreement re. int’l communication below 30MHz in any event…but it might’ve set the stage for 2003. The league itself has stated that it has no interests or concerns re. ANY other bands or frequencies other than those belonging to amateur radio.

Yes Don, talking over 150 miles on CB is against FCC rules/regs, however legal CB interests should be able to try and legally pursue a rule change without hindrance from an organization that claims to have NO interests/concerns re. 11 meters. That’s really the “meat” of it. Even re. the “freebanders,” the league claims that the so-called “freeband” in NOT a concern of amateur radio and thus NOT a concern of The ARRL. Upon receiving my copy of this months QST, I read those very words in an article about how to deal with bootleg ops on amateur bands. It’s all there in black and white.

This brings me to my next point. I truly am NOT anti-amateur radio, I happen to love both hobbies. Yes, although CB wasn’t intended to be a “hobby” radio service, this IS what it has evolved into. All things in life evolve, if that were not true, there would be no need to construct four lane highways where dirt roads once lay. While I do NOT defend freebanding, I DO tell it like it is.(was) I don’t preach to people and I like to tell it straight. My advice is always to “be good and if you can’t be good, then be careful.” The fact that I “freebanded” for so long without suffering any unpleasant consequences can be attributed to running a very clean low power station, a very RFI conscious antenna system w/proper grounding and good low pass filtering, or just plain fools luck. (not likely though) I took a very foolish chance. We make our mistakes and then we grow up. I’d like to believe that the statute of limitations for this offense lay somewhere between claiming to have donated more than one actually has for IRS purposes and a bona fide capital crime. (A little levity never hurts.) I’d prefer to see people NOT freeband and I tell them so, but I won’t lie to them either.

Thank you for the invitation to become licensed, I graciously accept. I do respect the rules and generally do follow them. I just want to see legal proposals filed by CB/11 meter interests get a fair shake without involvement of an organization that clearly states that it has no business re. same. Sure, it’s hard to change the rules but it’s OK to try. My father used to say that if you do nothing, then you’re almost guaranteed to see nothing happen.

Larry, I would tend to agree with you but when I looked at my region results, I see that many candidates ran unopposed. That's a statement in and of itself. I also have to say that the same principle applies here. It may not do much, but it sure beats a blank. I could have just said "let me NOT write my reps." It may or may not have made a difference but I know it generated at least two responses before it hit the shredder. If I had done nothing, it would surely have generated nothing. Thank you both again and 73.

Mark
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ALAN_C
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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2001, 05:20:39 AM »

Hey Mark,

Really good idea. It's nice to see some constructive ideas on how to effect change from within the organization rather than bump heads. BRAVO!!!

73 de Alan
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BERT
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2001, 05:33:39 AM »

Well put Mark,

I see nothing wrong with a friendly e-mail to your particular area(division) representative(director) to inquire about their position re. 11 meters. Should they respond that there is no ARRL position; Politely refer them to RM-9807 and let them know that this is considered by 11 meter interests to have been league involvement in an issue for which they claim to have "no position." This is no longer acceptable and they now have another aspect of "league involvment" to consider for your vote.

I do NOT, however, agree with trying to get the ARRL to lobby the FCC on behalf of 11 meter interests, merely NOT to involve themselves in 11 meter rule making proposals by and of legal 11 meter interest groups/individuals.

Other than that, good luck and BRAVO on a "heads up" call.

73 de Bert
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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2001, 08:17:27 PM »

God bless you, what a great idea! I can't tell you how many times I've seen a thread turn into a "CB bashing session" at the mere mention of 11 meters or CB. I'm getting my ticket soon and I'm darn glad to hear that I'll be able to do more than just talk on MF/VHF/UHF, I'll also be able to help out the band that sparked my interest in radio in the first place. I really hadn't seriously considered joining The ARRL until now. My league division director candidates will receive letters, or e-mails I should say, from me! Then I'll vote for the lesser of two evils based on their replies, just like real life, huh? Two thumbs up on this one!
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KC0FUI
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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2001, 08:01:28 PM »

Hi all,

Mark, you make some good points.  Like many hams, I started out with an ancient CB rig and my grandfather for an Elmer.  I applaud your efforts to improve the CB service.

I would join with the others, though, in criticizing illegal operations and those who operate in this manner.  The laws are there for a purpose; we should honor them inasmuch as it is in our power to do so.

This is not to say one cannot, or indeed should not, attempt to change laws that one feels are unjust.  It is one of the foundations of our great democracy that the people have a right (or perhaps a duty) to petition the government in the interests of improving our laws.

I tend to agree with the gentleman who said that he does not feel the ARRL should be in the business of openly advocating changes to the CB regulations; however, I am also of the opinion that the League ought not be in the business of actively lobbying against changes, either.  In short, a "laissez-faire" attitude is in order.

73,

Jeremiah M. Bohn
KC0FUI
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MPEARSAL
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« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2001, 08:57:48 PM »

Hi Jeremiah,

Thanks for the response. I'd almost forgotten that I'd added this to the eHAM forum. You see, I'd submitted this to the editorial staff at QRZ (www.qrz.com) and they ran it as a "headline" article.; You can imagine how busy I've been responding to all the replies there.

I urge you to take a look at the QRZ thread as I'm sure you'll be very pleasantly surprised. You'll see that employing The ARRL to "represent" CB/11 meter issues is certainly NOT the desired effect. The real crux of the matter is to discourage the league from involving themselves in the legitimate attempts of LEGAL CB/11 meter interests in their efforts to effect rule changes re. Part 95. (NOT 97.)

I'm sure that if you read through the thread, it will become quite clear as to what this is really all about. I know it's a long thread but I implore you to check it out. Thanks and take care. 73.

Mark
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« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2001, 09:50:19 AM »

Mark,

   First please don't consider this "CB" bashing, but I do wish to make a point.  I read your comments with great interest.  Yes it could be said you make some very valid points.  However, I think you will find that in most of the "CB Bashing" you read the main topic is illegal ops.  Now when I read your article you admit to illegal ops, but say I am considerate in doing it.  Illegal is illegal no matter how much sugar you put on it.  Continuing to operate in violation of FCC regulations IS NOT a solution to a problem.  I personally like cb when I am on the road.  It is just a shame I can not have it on while my family is in the car.  Now I find out there are some toys my family can not play with because of CB.  Yes toys, my grandson has a little robot that walks around and comes with a little HT so you can make the robot talk.  Well apparently it operates within the 11mtr band.  The profanity that was coming out of this toy was horrible.  YES IT WAS CB'ers.  Now even if they were running legal power their choice of words is in violation of the FCC regs.  Just because you don't need a license doesn't mean you don't have regs to follow.  Now he is not allowed to have the batteries in the toy so it is useless to him.  I would also ask this, you mention how easy to pass a tech exam and join arrl.  Did I miss something, don't recall you saying to past it and hold a call sign.  If not, then why are you upset because because you can't get your 10mtr rig modified to operate 11mtr.  Why would you need a 10 mtr rig.  Bottom line if there was a way for the FCC to enforce the regs on CB I might accept your proposal, but 11 mtr has gotten so far out of hand they can not.  So how can increasing privileges be justified.  If you want to DX then get your ticket.  If we change CB what will stop the next person who is upset because they can't talk from NY to family in CA on FRS from wanting changes.  It is a shame that some ops have given most CB'ers a bad name, but to be honest when I do get on CB I find them now to be the majority.  This is why I got my ticket.  Yes ham also has it problems.  BUT the FCC can and DOES inforce violations often very harshly.  Read the enforcement log on ARRL site.
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N2SEX
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2001, 12:09:19 AM »

I don't understand them wanting more privliges when they cannot control what they have now. What have they done to deserve more? If you wanna Dx get a Ham license they practically give em away now. I think the whole idea is there is a radio service available to everyone Ham radio which will allow you to do many things, yet follow rules and regs like a civilized socoety, The 11 meter band is like a RF wasteland right now anything and everything goes and usually does. But ya know what I kinda like it, where else can you go to hoot and holler on a friday night dial in the local channel and act stupid like the rest of em, hell its good clean fun usually. We could be out getting locked up, cheating on our wives or sitting at a bar, hmm not bad choices either but anyway, When I want to go and hold a decent conversation and be all say "orim and proper " i get on  the amatuer band If i fell like having a few laughs i get on 11 meters. The only thing all op;s need to do is repect others such as neigbors etc, and do unto others as they would do to you. There are many arguements cbers calling Hams stuck up, Hams calling Cber lowlifes, when in reality most all came from Cb radio and many still do both. Its all GOOD!  
 
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