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Author Topic: laws for id  (Read 1342 times)
KD8FDD
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Posts: 29




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« on: December 31, 2007, 05:13:50 AM »

Helo i'm a 14 yr old ham and have had my license for about a year. On 2m and hf I have heard all kinds of people using the phrase " clear after your final after there callsighn. Someone help me to understand if it is a fcc rule to make the last thing you say you callsighn. Isn't it an fcc rule.
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N0RZT
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Posts: 104




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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2007, 05:56:47 AM »

You are required to ID at the end of a series of communications, but it'd be a very strict interpretation to take that as "the last thing out of your mouth is your call sign".

Consider the sentences: "Well, I'm destinated, Jason.  This is N0RZT, clear after your final KD8FDD."  The only things wrong with that are style - "destinated" is a horrible torture of the English language, and it's wrong to my ears to for the sender to give the other guy's call sign after his own.  The way you'd hear it from me would be: "Well, I'm in the parking lot, Jason.  KD8FDD, this is N0RZT; I'm clear on your final.  73."


73,
Chris
N0RZT/8
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W3LK
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Posts: 5639




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« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2007, 06:58:48 AM »

Actually, the whole "clear after your transmission, etc", thing is kind of silly. It's a rag-chew thing. I don't know to many serious communicators who use it in any other context. Certainly not in ECOM-related communications.

And there is nowhere in Part 97 that says your call sign has to be the last words in any transmission.

Hang in there. You're going to get lots of goofy advice as you go along. Smiley

73,

Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut
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KB9CRY
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« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2007, 08:44:16 AM »

make the last thing you say you callsighn. Isn't it an fcc rule.


No.  You do have to ID with your callsign at the end of a series of transmissions but your callsign doesn't have to be the last thing you say.
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KC0SHZ
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Posts: 372




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« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2007, 11:59:08 AM »

Around Omaha, the final call sign ID is used for the end of extensive conversations.   If someone asks me for directions to a place and I answer in one 3 word  sentence, I often don't ID at the end.  If it turns into a real QSO, or I am part of a net, then I always sign at the end.
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KD8FDD
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Posts: 29




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« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2007, 12:08:36 PM »

Well I got an fcc ticket when I got my license because I sighned off of my first contact with the phrase clear. Now i'm a friend to that oo. I don't know what to make out of it. 73's
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KG6WLS
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Posts: 507




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« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2007, 12:23:23 PM »

"The only things wrong with that are style - "destinated" is a horrible torture of the English language, and it's wrong to my ears to for the sender to give the other guy's call sign after his own. The way you'd hear it from me would be: "Well, I'm in the parking lot..."

Hmmm, doesn't seem to bother me to hear the words "I'm destinated" after a mobile QSO/ragchew but, to some, I guess it does. I'd rather hear somebody simply say to me that they're "destinated" than hearing a long drawn out "Well, I'm in the parking lot, just in front of the drug store. Need to pick up my perscription for my (yada-yada-yada), and then off to the barber" and so on. I hear this kind of stuff sometimes after I finish QSO, and it's really none of my business what the other operator needs to do after they leave their radio.



Well, I'm destinated my friend. Thanks for the ride-along and Happy New Year to you and yours.

KD8FDD de KG6WLS -- 73 (without the 's)
QRT
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ONAIR
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Posts: 1744




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« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2007, 06:30:38 PM »

   I think we're all destinated! Just throw your call into your last transmission and Uncle Charlie should be happy.
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KA4CKR
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Posts: 11




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« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2007, 10:41:36 PM »

There was a debate about this in my ham club. So, instead of wondering who was right and who was wrong, I simply sent an email to Riley. He said, and I quote, "During the sentence at the end is fine."

So, according to the man who would be "writing the tickets", your callsign doesn't have to be the last word out of your mouth.

Hope this helps,

Tim Newman
KA4CKR

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KD8FDD
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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2008, 10:14:29 AM »

This is very confusing. He seems so serius and he has the whole fcc rulebook memorized. On the local repeters I will just make the last thing I say my call but on my first hf contact it may be a different story. He also says it is illegal to say kd8fdd mobile or portable. Or listening. 73's
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W3LK
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« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2008, 12:24:42 PM »

<<  He also says it is illegal to say kd8fdd mobile or portable. Or listening.>>

With all due respect, this person you are referring to is a idiot. None of this is illegal, and personally, I would not waste my time listening to anything further he has to say - on or off the air.

73,

Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut
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AA4PB
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« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2008, 12:31:30 PM »

Well I got an fcc ticket when I got my license because I sighned off of my first contact with the phrase clear. Now i'm a friend to that oo.
----------------------------------------------------

First off, an OO (Official Observer) is an ARRL appointment. He is not an official of the FCC and the advisory he sent you was NOT an FCC ticket. It carries no legal weight.

It sounds as though this OO has his own very strict interpretation of the FCC rules. There is no requirement to identify as mobile or portable but there is no rule against doing so. There is also nothing illegal with saying that you are listening as long as you include your call sign. It's common practice on most repeaters.

My suggestion would be to use the same procedures that the majority of others on your particular repeater use. Get a copy of the FCC Rulebook from the ARRL. It contains some "plain language" interpretation. You might also want to get a copy of the ARRL Operating Manual to check out some of the accepted procedures.
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AG4RQ
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« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2008, 10:54:54 AM »

The only rule that the FCC has for ID is to ID every 10 minutes and at the end of the QSO. How you do it and what you say is entirely up to you. There is a matter of protocol, which varies from area to area. Do as others do in your area and on your repeater. As long as you use no foul language, cause no harmful interference and ID every 10 minutes and at the end of the QSO, you're fine with the FCC.

BTW, there is no rule about giving the other person's callsign with your own when you ID. It's more of an "unwritten rule" that is merely customary among hams (amateur etiquette). If all you give is your own callsign when you ID, you're OK with the FCC. There is no rule about IDing at the beginning of a QSO either. If you come on a repeater with something like "KD8FDD listening" or "KD8FDD for ID", that's OK also.

Don't worry yourself with the so called "band cops" or "frequency police" that tell you what you're doing is illegal. If it's not prohibited in Part 97, it's not illegal.

73,
AG4RQ
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N0RZT
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Posts: 104




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« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2008, 07:53:07 AM »

Good morning,

> He also says it is illegal to say kd8fdd mobile
> or portable.

Then, respectfully, he needs to consult Part 97.

Part 97, Section 119, Paragraph (c) specifically permits self-assigned indicators "before, after, or both before and after, the call sign", provided it doesn't conflict with an indicator specified by the FCC rules or another country's prefix.

http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/news/part97/b.html#119

Under a strict interpretation of that paragraph, you would need to include some suitable word indicating the slant mark to separate the indicator from your call sign (e.g., "KD8FDD stroke mobile"), but common practice is to omit "stroke" when the identifier is not a letter/number combination.

For that matter, the word "mobile" or "portable" was an acceptable separator when you were required to identify your temporary call district - in college I identified as "N0RZT portable 9" or "N0RZT mobile 9".


73,
Chris
N0RZT/8
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NA0AA
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Posts: 1042




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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2008, 06:35:52 PM »

In some services - Aeronautical comes to mind, it's customary to acknowledge any transmission by giving your callsign at the end, but it was a double check to the ATC folks that the correct aircraft had responded.

I think that you are getting good advice here - as long as your call is part of your sign-off somewhere, you should be legal.

Clear:  This station is done, ready for traffic.

Monitoring:  I am now repeater control operator

Listening:  I have turned on my radio and wanted to annouce my presence on the repeater

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