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Author Topic: FT-8900 Front Alignment After MARS Mod Required?  (Read 12328 times)
N1TAI
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Posts: 4


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« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2008, 01:25:56 PM »

I have been spanked real good. Oh well.
Lets see who gets spanked.
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KA7YAZ
Member

Posts: 15




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« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2008, 02:02:00 PM »

Mr. Saab,

Please explain how posting my personal information was important to this issue? Please explain how since I am only a novice I am incapable of stating as an attorney what the law is? Please explain how Part 97, which has been accurately quoted in this thread, is flawed? It isn't and I beleieve that you know that. The law is the law and regardless of my rank as a ham. Even an Extra goes by the same laws.

The only error KI6DYR committed was asking a question and he has been attacked ever since for doing what many, many other ham has done. He also did it with the clear intention of possibly helping someone in the future. He has made it absolutely clear that he has no intention of using his radio out-of-band, and, that he has type accepted equipment for the other bands.

What is also clear is that you entered this dead thread with the intention of creating ill-will and controversay. I have been to your web site and it is crystal clear that you are a show off, braggart, and a poor example of a Sensai. Do you actually teach arrogance and confrontation to your students? One bows in Karate to show respect and humility, yet as a Sensei you have denied that here? You are to teach a student so that he learns self-confidence, serenity, and humility, but yet do not practice what you are to teach? A clenched fist to show strength; an open hand to show peace.

Do you remember these?

The eye must see all sides.
The ear must listen in all directions.

Most of you have missed an opportunity to teach through your own arrogance and desire to jump all over a newer ham.

There would have been a very, very simple response to DYR in the beginning -- shhh.
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N1TAI
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Posts: 4


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« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2008, 03:26:59 PM »

Steve,
I will say this to you as I had tried to say it to Bob when he then threatened me with cyber-harassment.

Let it go, I have...
You got your 2 cents in and if you actually go to my ham site http://www.n1tai.com it says nothing of my Karate expertise. Being Sensei has nothing to do with being a ham.

I am not a braggart or a poor example of Sensei...ah heck, not even going to go there.

And as you have suggested, I am going to take the coarse of shhhh.....

Be well..

73 de N1TAI
oos
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KA7YAZ
Member

Posts: 15




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« Reply #48 on: September 27, 2008, 04:05:10 PM »

Mr. Saab,

I am aware of your harassing emails to Bob and they are cyber-harassment. The moment you went direct to Bob and continued sending him emails when directed to cease and desist it became cyber-harassment. If you truly wanted to let this go you would not have typed an implied threat in this forum to DYR that reads:

"I have been spanked real good. Oh well. Lets see who gets spanked."

Bob has learned the hard way to keep his mouth shut; perhaps you should consider that as an option. But Bob was also absolutely on point when he made a general statement that most people would not dream of talking to one another in person as they do on the internet because they might get knocked on their butt. Your response was to send him several unrequested emails, one of which directed him to your karate page. You went one further by stating that you would be more than happy to use your skills. So yes, your status as a Sensei - a black belt - has everything to do with where we are at right now.

"In violence we forget who we are."

Mr. Saab, please let me know if it will be necessary to send you a formal letter to cease and desist. We might also discuss your specious publication of my personal information.

This thread has degenerated to such an extent that it should be allowed to be set aside. This thread is two years old - enough is enough.
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N1TAI
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Posts: 4


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« Reply #49 on: September 27, 2008, 05:11:25 PM »

Mr. Root,

I asked that we let this go but you seem to want to keep it going.

Here is my email address: n1tai@aol.com

You want to discuss this I will offline. This is not the place to start throwing around legal opinion.

N1TAI
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KI6DYR
Member

Posts: 227




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« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2009, 12:01:16 AM »

Arguing with an attorney that specializes in communications. Don't that beat all.

Even after reading the then called Mobile Radio Technology magazine article suggesting that public safety agencies purchase amateur radios because they are very frequency agile, I sincerely debated whether or not to post the following information. Although those of you with negative opinions will resurface with unrelated arguments I am going to pass on how amateur radio saved the day during a search involving eminent life, limb or property.

A critical missing person was reported to the Sheriff's Department. The search area was massive (more than 50 square miles) and after very brief media coverage a couple hundred volunteer searchers arrived at the command post with FRS walkie-talkies in hand. Since volunteer searchers was nothing new they were embraced as a valuable asset.

The county fire department deployed a mobile command post fully outfitted with everything from HF to 800mhz trunking. The county SAR teams operate on both 800 and in the VHF public safety band using repeaters installed for their exclusive use. Along with the mobile command post were ARES-like operators that were all hams. Anything that can go wrong was about to go wrong.

As luck would have it the county SAR repeater on the mountain directly over the search area took a dump. Although the county fire mobile command post had ham gear, it had *not* been modified for out of band operation.

The two problems were that 1) the SAR team members could not effectively communicate over such a large area without their repeater, and 2) volunteers on FRS could not communicate with the command post over such a large area. Amateur radio saved the day.

Gun shots had been heard in areas known for the manufacturing of drugs and this represented a safety issue for the county SAR members and volunteer rescuer's alike. Additionally, rain storms occurring in the mountains above the search area caused a flash flood watch to be issued for the river area being searched. In spite of logistical inconveniences, the a critical missing person was counting on being found.

The SAR members had type accepted Motorola's; the civilian searchers had a combination of type accepted Yaesu and Motorola Talk-Abouts. There was easily over 100 radios there on two different bands. Add into the mix numerous ham radio operators that arrived to help search for the critical missing person. A ham repeater atop the same mountain as the SAR repeater was fully operational. The owner of the machine gave his blessing for ham use and a debt is owed to him as well.

§97.403 Safety of life and protection of property.
No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radiocommunication at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available.

An enterprising ham on scene had a modified FT-8900 with him, a crank-up tripod, and a discone. He drove up to the top of the commercial radio site that towered over the search area and cranked up a discone attached to a FT-8900 that even had intermod filters inline. He set one side to the FRS channel and tone used by the searchers, and the other side to the output of the SAR repeater and tone. Using a deep cycle marine battery for power he fired up the cross-band repeater. He later explained that at least if the SAR repeater came back online the SAR team members could communicate normally, but in the least "Control" could manage a simplex net.

It worked great! Ham radio operators stayed on their ham repeater but SAR personnel were able not only to communicate with one another line of sight, but most importantly, back to the fire department incident command truck that could talk on its type accepted radio, AND, to those on FRS through the FT-8900. The only radio not specifically type accepted was the Yaesu FT-8900, although "type accepted" just means that the radio was submitted for testing and certification. $$$

After 9 hours the search ended with positive results and communications played a vital role in the entire incident. Ham radio is still being praised for their efforts.

You make the call.
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KB1NXE
Member

Posts: 311




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« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2009, 11:38:16 AM »

Man, this has been a good and fun read.

Never, not even once, did I see anything stated about a modded radio being used to transmit outside of it's approved frequencies.  I did see the implication that it was possible in event of a permissible event.  OK.  No laws broken.  You see, just modding the radio is not the problem - like many of you seem to think.  It's only when you use that modded radio to actually transmit.  And only then if those transmission don't fit into a very narrow group of events is the law broken.  That has NOT occurred.  In fact, the OP seems to be one of the few who just may encounter those events whereby it is legal.  Don'tcha get it?

I can imagine in the event of a hiker with a compound fracture, this will be considered a life threatening event.  I think we can all agree on that.  Now, would it be illegal, if the only radio able to communicate was a two meter HT modded to transmit outside the ham bands on say the Sheriffs Freq (at 155.070) to call for assistance?  I think the rules are clear and it would not.

Now, how many of you in the above scenario have both the modding instructions and the tools necessary to perform the mod on site?  I thought so.

Most of you have built a straw man, and now that it's on fire, your doing your best to defend your own pyromania.  Grow up please.

To the original poster and the lawyer who came to his aid, I applaud you both, not only for your knowledge of the rules, but your tolerance for the child like barrage of mental special Olympics you've endured...

Lon - Specifically - PLONK!  (look it up)

Jim - KB1NXE
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W3LK
Member

Posts: 5639




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« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2009, 12:38:56 PM »

You miss the point. The OP had deliberately moded his amateur radio to USE on SAR frequencies on a regular basis. That IS illegal. That's totally different from using the radio in the case of a life or death situation WHEN NO OTHER MEANS OF COMMUNICATION IS AVAILABLE. That's an often ignored part of Part 97.

And NOWHERE did anyone say that moding the receiver was illegal. If the OP wants to be a scofflaw and transmit illegal on some slim pretext, that's his problem. I'll chuckle when he looses his amateur license for it.

-73,

Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut
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KI6DYR
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Posts: 227




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« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2009, 01:12:21 PM »

No Lon, YOU missed it again. I made it absolutely clear that there was an over abundance of type accepted radios on scene and that they were the only radios being used. I also wasn't the OP that you refer to in the above quoted actual event. The ONLY radio not "type accepted" was the FT-8900 that was lawfully used pursuant to 97.403. Type acceptance is only a process whereby a radio is certified for a fee. Nearly any current ham radio could easily be type accepted for commercial use. It's about $$$ and not spectural purity. That isn't the point. The point remains that a single mod'd radio was properly and legally used to allow essential life saving communications.

I was part of the team and my primary radios where 2 - Yaesu VX-4100 commercial radios, 1- Yaesu VX-4200 commercial radio, 1- Bendix-King commercial radio, 1- Motorola XTS commercial radio -- nowhere in the list is there a single ham radio. In fact, I was nowhere near a ham radio. The ham repeater was programmed into a commercial type accepted radio. In your head you still insist that my only radio is a ham radio specifically mod'd and you are dead wrong.

"No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radiocommunication at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available."

What part of this remains unclear to you? The SAR repeater was down. It wa essential. The incident command vehicle had type accepted radios for public safety frequencies and ham gear that had *not* been mod'd. But the command post could not achieve the range required without the public safety repeater 4000 feet above the search area where a known victim was located. This was essential. They also could not maintain communications with 1/2 watt FRS radios over 50 square miles. This was essential. A flash flood warning had been issued endangering the victim and searchers alike. This endangered life and limb. Additionally, dope cookers with guns were known to be in the area. This endangered life and limb. Deputies were on scene and involved to mitigate this, but only if they knew where the shots were coming from. EVERY effort was made to use type accepted commercial radios and this goal was achieved *except* for the repeater.

How much more do you need to knock this through your head? Are you a purist or just stubborn and refuse to accept exactly what 97.403 says? It isn't in Part 97 just to take up space. Far smarter people than you or I included it for a reason. How many times has a ham radio on a boat been used to call the Coast Guard? "We're taking on water at a rapid rate. There are 6 souls on board. We're not sure where we are..." You'd let them drown.

I posted this actual event knowing that it would rekindle a necessary fire.
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KB1NXE
Member

Posts: 311




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« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2009, 01:41:42 PM »

Lon,

FYI from Wikipedia:

 [Usenet: possibly influenced by British slang ‘plonk’ for cheap booze, or ‘plonker’ for someone behaving stupidly (latter is lit. equivalent to Yiddish schmuck)] The sound a newbie makes as he falls to the bottom of a kill file. While it originated in the newsgroup talk.bizarre, this term (usually written “*plonk*”) is now (1994) widespread on Usenet as a form of public ridicule.
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KA7YAZ
Member

Posts: 15




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« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2009, 01:46:34 PM »

Lon,

I won't publicly ridcule you. As a lowly, uneducated communications attorney I am certainly not qualified to determine if you are playing with a full deck or not.

As for 97.403, the real life scenario that was offered is exactly how 97.403 is interpreted. It is amazing how helpful the FCC can be when one actually telephones them. There is no ambiguity in 97.403. It does not say, "Only if Lon approves."
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K8SSN
Member

Posts: 5




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« Reply #56 on: February 24, 2009, 02:09:17 PM »

WOW, this is amazing! An argument about the use of a radio that has been modified for MARS use.

Maybe, it will be used for MARS. I believe 99% of the hams would look for other means of transmitting  emergency information rather than just popping up on the local Police band and saying help. IF ALL ELSE FAILS use what you can.

It's like telling my Boy Scouts not to drink the water from the creek. However if you are lost and dehydrated, drink the water, We can cure bacteria in you system, but can't cure death from lack of water.
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KI6DYR
Member

Posts: 227




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« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2009, 02:37:58 PM »

I was a Boy Scout and made it to Life. I learned to use what I had. I joined the Army as a MP and learned to ovecome and adapt. I also learned that it is far better to be tried by 12 than to be carried by six.

Is there any wonder the younger generation wants nothing to do with ham radio? Someone put the Welcome Mat back in the closet.
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KA7YAZ
Member

Posts: 15




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« Reply #58 on: February 24, 2009, 03:36:19 PM »

I think that it is extremely clear that both KI6DYR and the rest of the hams / operators did everything that they could to use public safety equipment. If only one radio was a ham radio and it was used to replace a repeater that inconveniently went down during a critical rescue, where's the problem? Bob shared audio recordings of this entire search and rescue and all that I can say is WOW! Talk about professional. They sounded like professional dispacthers and pictures of their mobile command posts are truly impressive.
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W3LK
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Posts: 5639




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« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2009, 05:45:04 PM »

Whatever you guys say ...

73,

Lon - W3LK
Naugatuck, Connecticut
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