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Author Topic: RFI from Verizon FiOS Tellabs Model 1600-612 ONT  (Read 7530 times)
W2MV
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Posts: 207




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« on: August 23, 2009, 04:40:34 PM »

It seems that the outdoor ONT (optical network transceiver) that was just installed as part of my new Verizon FiOS service is generating wideband noise which is especially bad on 40 and 30 meters. It's a rushing sound to the ears and is about s7. I don't hear it on 20,15,10 with my yagi, only on 40, 30 and 80 meters with my dipoles. It's only s3 or so on 80.
I logged a repair call to Verizon to complain about the RFI. They responded and said "it sounds like a grounding or shielding problem...we'll send someone out." I checked the ground that VZ installed to my pwr company meter box. The meter box is floating which I showed VZ, and then the tech ran a gnd wire from the external ONT to an existing gnd rod. No change in the RFI strength. The ONT has connections for phone, where it connects to the existing copper in the house, TV, where it connects to existing coax from the cable company, and internet...a CAT5 cable to the shack. After some experimentation with a nice and cooperative VZ tech, we determined that the RFI is almost definitely being generated by the ONT. After 2 calls to VZ, the tech said that's all he can do, and has no way to escalate anything unless there's a problem with a VZ service itself. He has nobody to call for this type of problem.
Any suggestions here? Do I put a bunch of snap-on chokes on all cables in/out of the ONT? Any suggestions on escalating this to VZ, FCC, or the ONT vendor Tellabs?

Thanks,
 Alan
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WB4BYQ
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Posts: 179




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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2009, 09:30:53 AM »

Just reading about the problem, does the ONT us ac power from your home?  If it does, i would think that
most of the rfi is coming from the switching power supply for the ONT.  you will need a good choke there, like a ft-240-77, or maybe several type 31 ferrite snap-on's.  I have seen rfi from computer equipment, and shielded cat 5 will help remove that rfi, and sometime with snap-on ferrites at both equipment ends.

please look at there sites for help,

http://atnm.mcars.us/HomeBrew/WB4BYQ/CommonModeChokes/

http://www.olympixcorp.com/rfchoke/ferrite.htm
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W3WN
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Posts: 204




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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2009, 01:26:06 PM »

Alan:

It should not be your job or your expense to fix an RFI problem with Verizon's equipment.  In fact, if you do try anything, they may hold you responsible for any future problems.

But there is hope.

First, check to see how the ONT is powered.  I know the ONT on my house & our previous rental had a battery-backup UPS attached in the event of a power failure; the techs never made it clear if the ONT received power from the pole in some way & the AC feeding that was just to keep the battery charged, or if UPS subsystem was also feeding power to the ONT.  Assuming that you have the same or similar setup... just for kicks & giggles, pull the wall wart out for a moment and see if the RFI goes away.

Now... if you just had Verizon FiOS installed, you should have the same option that I had way back when, and KB3ERQ (co worker) had when his was put in a few weeks back:  30 days to cancel the service with no penalties or fees.  

So:  If Verizon support can't or won't repair or replace the unit, even after you and the tech identified it as the source of the interference... call up the sales office and inform them that due to the malfuctioning equipment that they refuse to replace in violation of FCC Part 15 rules regarding interference to licensed radio services, (or whatever else is appropriate for the situation), you are exercising your right under law and/or contract to cancel the service within 30 days.  

Unless they are willing to replace the unit, of course.

And remember the 2nd Rule in a Crisis Situation:  If you are going to bluff, prepare to have your bluff called.  So if they still refuse to repair or replace the unit, tell them to yank it and restore your previous service -- and mean it.

Either way, an RFI complaint to the FCC is in order.  File one (I believe you can do so via the FCC web site).  Verizon will find it cheaper, easier, and better from a PR standpoint to repair/replace the unit than to have the FCC fine them and have a nastygram out on the Internet -- just ask Duquesne Light Company!

73
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W2MV
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2009, 07:17:15 PM »

Thanks you for your replies. I have considered installing common-mode filters on all cables coming in/out of the ONT...except the fiber one, of course.
Using a cheap, portable SW receiver and walking around outside, the 7 MHz noise appears to be emanating from both the ONT and the coax strung all over the outside of the house. It seems as if that may be radiating a significant portion of my problem signal. The question now is do I implement some home made common-mode chokes using toriods and/or snap-on chokes, or as someone suggested, don't mess with anything and let Verizon fix it, and if they can't threaten to cancel. I'll have to ponder that. I have not yet canceled my previous services because I was waiting to see how stable FiOS was.
I'm still trying to figure out what the unannounced visit to my home was three days ago, where the tech told my daughter that "I'm just looking at the box and you will get a call about an installation"...of what??

The way the FiOS system works is that the ONT is powered through the battery backup unit, similar to a UPS. Flipping off the power to the switching p/s which powers the ONT and charges the gel cell eliminated or almost eliminated the RFI. The phone circuitry was still powered on at that point. When the tech and I were experimenting, he removed the connection from the p/s completely, powered it on, and there was no RFI, so it appears that if the RFI is coming from the switching p/s, it is being conducted through common-mode and the directly radiated component is not the main problem.
At this time, I want Verizon to correct the problem rather than me expending much effort.
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K3LRH
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Posts: 58




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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2014, 01:02:16 PM »

........have you tried shielding the ps with aluminum foil?
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WX7G
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Posts: 6032




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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2014, 06:03:30 AM »

Type 31 snap-on cores (DX Engineering stocks them) are where I'd start. You might want to try routing all cables together through the ferrites rather than separate ferrites for each cable.
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W2MV
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Posts: 207




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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2014, 08:47:06 AM »

Yes, thanks, I tried snap-on cores from DXE but they made minimal difference, if any. I think the problem is maybe 20 of those chokes might be needed, compared to just one toroidal choke. The lines would have to be removed, lengthened, toroids added, then everything re-connected. I've been living with the workaround which involves disconnecting a/c power and keeping the ONT powered by the battery.
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WB4BYQ
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Posts: 179




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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2014, 01:17:48 PM »

Just read the post again since i now have a fiber to the house connection for my phone and internet.  had the city install shielded cat 5-E cable and the shielded connectors from the interface to the wireless router (cradlepoint brand).  installed a ky phone filter on the phone line in the interface box for the phone line.  the 12 volts that power the unit is from a cyber power ups. i plan to replace the ups with a 12 volt gel cell with a A & A Engineering Smart battery charger that creates no RFI, and my 6500 watt generator will power that setup, for the 60 cycle
power is not stable enough for the ups from the generator.

http://www.a-aengineering.com/

maybe this power setup will work for anyone that has the same need.
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KD0REQ
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Posts: 928




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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2014, 01:32:39 PM »

just a friendly reminder that you are not supposed to fiddle with the telco equipment, only your stuff beyond the demarcation point (the ONT box.)

the law doesn't say anything specific about Faraday shields... Wink

and wiring beyond the demarc is your personal responsibility, so clipping out the RJ45 jack, plugging in your own cat-5E cable wrapped around a 20 pound ferrite for about 6 feet, then using a extender jack (double-ender gender bender) to connect your cable to the internal wiring should not get you dirty stares from anybody except the decorator.
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WB4BYQ
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Posts: 179




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« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2014, 06:45:58 AM »

in my case i contacted the engineer with the city power/fiber system, did a review of my concerns, and the city of opelika installed the shielded cat 5-e for me, let me plug in the ky phone filter, and install a 12 power supply that is not sensitive to the 120 from the generator.

thanks
richard
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