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Author Topic: IC-7300 vs. TS-590SG ? (not S model)  (Read 19457 times)
KE2TR
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Posts: 401




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« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2016, 08:57:31 AM »

Thanks Zack, for me those second order numbers if being higher do help with having hams right down the street plus also on field day. Most of the radio's today have decent blocking numbers over 120+, RMDR numbers higher than 80db and some over 100db, IMD DR's over 100db but you really got to look at those number cause if they start to fall apart once a pre amp is engaged that could change things allot. In all respects the 7300 is a very good radio in lab tests, RMDR numbers are some of the bests but blocking and IMD DR numbers fall behind in some cases but its sensitivity is hi as almost any Icom tested which is way higher than you really need in real world operating IMO.
Between these two rigs they are close and it comes down to which radio does better in areas like noise removal, selectivity, interference rejection options and how well they work, this is were I would feel that Icom would come way ahead of Kenwood. After owning a TS590S for about six months I felt it was lacking in best overall performance in these areas, it was good but even the Yaesu 3K was better and I come has always been leading the pack here.
The one radio which had outstanding results in the lab was the Flex 6700 and more than likely the 6500 as well, the 6300's lack of band pass filters before the DAC leaves it on the lighter side. Icom did come out with a very good superheat design in the 7851 which does compete but at a cost way above most hams radio budget but when they can approach the Flex 67/6500 numbers who knows, maybe the IC 7610 might do that and maybe instead of dual watch they will have 2 slice ability, only time will tell.
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N8FVJ
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Posts: 163




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« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2016, 11:08:56 AM »

Both are good receivers. However, the TS-590SG has better blocking and IMD performance. And, the TS-590SG is better than the TS-590S. At the special sale price of $1289 with instant Kenwood $300 rebate thru Oct 2016, I would buy the TS-590SG now and perhaps the next new ICOM release down the road. That will likely be an $1.8K to $2K item.
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KE2TR
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Posts: 401




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« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2016, 11:16:54 AM »

Kenwood may have better blocking numbers then the Icom  but there NR/NB is almost old school they way they work, they haven't seem to change this since the 870, same watery sounds once engaged. Icom has worked on these circuits for years and has fine tuned them, even my FTDX3K does better than the 590 did that I had and I had them side by side for way over a months time. IF your a cw guy then that is were both the Icom 7300 and the Yaesu 3K shine, no ringing at 50hz bandwidth but the 590 fell short.
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N8FVJ
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Posts: 163




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« Reply #48 on: September 26, 2016, 06:07:34 PM »

Yes, you have a point, but I do not use CW or much noise reduction. I just cannot buy a mediocre 100kHz blocking at 123dB. I had better receivers in this regard 20 years ago.
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VK3BL
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« Reply #49 on: September 26, 2016, 09:49:34 PM »

Yes, you have a point, but I do not use CW or much noise reduction. I just cannot buy a mediocre 100kHz blocking at 123dB. I had better receivers in this regard 20 years ago.

A mediocre 123dB blocking?!  Maybe I'm confused, but in what world is this not good enough?
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VK3BL / VK3HXT / XU7AGA - http://vk3hxt.wordpress.com
N8FVJ
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« Reply #50 on: September 27, 2016, 06:56:20 AM »

That dynamic range is representative of some tube radios such as the Collins 75S-3B at 122db. The TS-590SG is 137db. IC-7300 20kHz blocking is 81dB. The TS-590SG 20kHz blocking is 104dB. The IC-7300 overloads at times with full gain per other reviews. Yes, turn down the gain works, but weak signal stations also disappear. The new to be released IC-7610 should resolve this. I just hope it does not cost twice as much as the TS-590SG.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2016, 07:28:10 AM by N8FVJ » Logged
W1VTP
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Posts: 2




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« Reply #51 on: September 29, 2016, 10:23:33 AM »

WOW! All these opinions.  The "toy" comment especially makes me raise an eyebrow.  Then there is the comment brushing aside the Sherwood tests results.

I have looked at the test results, looked at the design architecture of both units, and tried them both at HRO.

The 7300 has an entirely different design architecture in that it uses the direct conversion method whereas the 590sg uses more conventional superheterodyne  design albeit with some pretty neat user features.  Looking at the Sherwood report both units have very similar performance numbers - the difference that I notice is that the 7300 uses a touch screen (which I do not like Smiley ) whereas the 590sg uses the conventional button approach.  The 7300 only has one antenna port whereas the 590sg has two.  

Both units are going to find a place in different shacks.  The 7300 being a breakthrough design approach and at such a reasonable price point is certainly  NOT a toy.  The panadaptor screen is a feature that is hard to dismiss once one gets to use one for a while.. I predict will be the predecessor of some pretty "NON-TOY" high performance units.  I think the superheterodyne design is on it last legs - the direct conversion design architecture is the wave of the future.  But, for the time being we have the choice of a couple of "big boys toys" that are pretty close in performance.

I would have posted an easier to read version of the Sherwood test comparison of the two transceivers but I don't know how to use that "insert image" feature of this forum

Put one of  them on your wish list and put it on the fridge so your xyl can see it  Grin
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 11:15:36 AM by W1VTP » Logged
K7JQ
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Posts: 695




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« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2016, 03:30:13 PM »

That dynamic range is representative of some tube radios such as the Collins 75S-3B at 122db. The TS-590SG is 137db. IC-7300 20kHz blocking is 81dB. The TS-590SG 20kHz blocking is 104dB. The IC-7300 overloads at times with full gain per other reviews. Yes, turn down the gain works, but weak signal stations also disappear. The new to be released IC-7610 should resolve this. I just hope it does not cost twice as much as the TS-590SG.

Early estimates from reliable sources indicate the 7610 will cost AT LEAST twice as much as a 7300. Another post has an overseas website price posting comparable to $3,800 USD.
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N8FVJ
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« Reply #53 on: September 29, 2016, 04:49:15 PM »

$3800? I'll stay with the TS-590SG.
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W1VTP
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« Reply #54 on: Yesterday at 05:14:55 AM »

$3800? I'll stay with the TS-590SG.

The 590sg is the one I'm getting.  Yes, I like the direct conversion of the 7300 I like the panadapter, I don't like the touch screen.  Icom has a little more engineering to do

Al
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N8FVJ
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Posts: 163




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« Reply #55 on: Yesterday at 06:10:53 AM »

The performance of the TS-590SG is stunning. I upgraded from a dated FT-920, but the difference is huge. Although the TS-590SG internal speaker is good, a Palstar 30B external speaker is better.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:06:09 AM by N8FVJ » Logged
KE2TR
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Posts: 401




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« Reply #56 on: Yesterday at 10:12:51 AM »

I hand owned a 590S for 9 months and although a very nice radio the FTDX3K that I placed it side by side for over a month was better, were I found a big difference was on the RX not getting crushed as easily as when the ham down the street was on running a KW, I could work within 4-5Khz away from him with the 3K and with the 590s I had to be at least 10Khz away and he was 1/4 mile away.
Also when he was on 40m I could tell wen I was on 20m with the 590 and the Yaesu didn't even have a sniff of him, the 590SG may be better but I really don't think that much and during contests I had the 590S and 3K side by side, after that weekend I sold the Kenwood. I think at least for me on SSB the NEW Icom has to be a hellova lot better in this regard and the 7300 is not, maybe the 7610 might be. The only thing that makes the 7300 attractive is its fish finder but it doesn't make the RX play any better in real world use just makes it look cool.
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KE2TR
Member

Posts: 401




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« Reply #57 on: Yesterday at 10:22:18 AM »

BTW the blocking of the FTDX3000 was greater than 137db at the ARRL labs and stated it was 10db beyond the test fixture placing it over 150db at 20 KHz.
The 5Khz numbers were 132db which would be a palatable number for SSB op's and even with the two different pre amps engaged the 20Khz numbers were in the mid 140's. Not only are the 3K's blocking numbers better plus the second order numbers are 20db better than either the Icom or Kenwood.
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N8FVJ
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Posts: 163




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« Reply #58 on: Yesterday at 04:23:42 PM »

I am not finding the high test numbers per QST tests on Sept 2013, but it may be improved now. Anyways you state it is superior to the TS-590 so it is. Which TS-590, the S or SG version?
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W8JX
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Posts: 9717




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« Reply #59 on: Yesterday at 07:58:57 PM »

I got a chance today to play a IC-7300, a TS-590 SG and a TS-480 SAT side by side today for about 30 minutes or so and it was interesting. I am a Kenwood guy but I have to say the 7300 clearly has a cleaner receiver than 590 on SSB. It picked signal out of noise noticably better than 590 and audio was clearer/crisper (and yes I played with recv EQ on 590 too) I did like features and controls and feel of tuning knob on 590 better but 7300 sound better hands down. I will further add that I still prefer 480's SSB audio on receive over 590 Its a bit cleaner and picks signals out of noise a bit better than 590 too but 7300 is better. All testing was done on 40m. I have to say that except for general feel and touch screen  on 7300 (I would prefer more buttons like on 590 and better VFO tuning feel/rate) that Icom has a winner with 7300.
« Last Edit: Today at 05:12:04 AM by W8JX » Logged

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