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Author Topic: Kenmore Dishwasher RFI, Maytag Washer RFI  (Read 16368 times)
W2MV
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Posts: 207




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« on: April 29, 2010, 12:45:49 PM »

I wish my old analog, electro-mechanical appliances could come back!
We just got a new Maytag washer and a new Kenmore dishwasher.

The Maytag emits a symphony of various noise on the 15M band, possibly elsewhere. The Kenmore was just connected today, and I of course then listened on the bands. On 10 and 15M, there were broad-peaked signals space at 60 KHz, i.e., switching p/s, and fairly high noise in between.  This happens even when the appliances are "off." I guess off isn't really off. Then, strangely, the noise disappeared! Hmmm...stay tuned for updates. Perhaps the dishwasher was really in some kind of cycle which ended.
The power cords of the washer and fridge are relatively accessible, and I could install filters without too much pain, but the dishwasher power is hard-wired to a piece of BX cable. That would be a project to mess with.

Seems that everything has a CPU and associated noisy p/s...very depressing.

Alan, W2MV
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WB4BYQ
Member

Posts: 179




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« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2010, 01:09:09 PM »

Please let us know what happens and what the fix is for the rfi.  this is my worst
dream of trouble in the hf bands.  i have been fighting rfi problems now for at least
2 to 3 years in my neighbor hood.  i have had to write the ARRL RFI group for help
twice and i have ferrite toroidal cores in four houses plus ferrite snap-ons in two of the
four houses.  so far the neighbors have been very helpful but two.  i plan to move to my
5 acres as soon as i can get a house built.  plan to purchase a Timewave ANC-4 at dayton.

richard
WB4BYQ
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WX7G
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Posts: 6035




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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2010, 04:51:44 PM »

Switch the AC power to these appliances OFF when not in use.
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W2MV
Member

Posts: 207




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« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2010, 08:31:31 AM »

There is a separate breaker for the dishwasher, so as I'm doing now with my Verizon FiOS power supply, also noisy, turning it off when I operate.

I'll put filters on the power cords of the other appliances.

There's gotta be a better way! Yes, there is, but it means preventive measures BEFORE these consumer pieces of junk leave the factories.
I think I prefer the "old days", when the main problem was interference TO neighbor's TVs, not interference TO my HF receiver.

W2MV
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WB4BYQ
Member

Posts: 179




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« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2010, 11:40:19 AM »

please tell us what type of filters did you install on the other appliances.  maybe in the dishwasher an ft-240-31 might fix the problem.

richard
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W2MV
Member

Posts: 207




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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2010, 11:52:48 AM »

I have used the FT-240-77 (2.4 in inside dia) toroids with some success on various line cords, sometimes using 2 of them "in series."

Kreger components charges a lot less than Amidon does but you need to supply the Fair-Rite part number.

Alan
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AA4HA
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Posts: 1424




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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2010, 09:26:38 PM »

I have a Jenn air electric range where the plasma display generates a tremendous amount of hash. I had to dissect the range to get to where the control board is so I could install ferrites. Fortunately the display failed but the unit still works (sans display) and the interference problem went away.

With all of the microprocessor driven circuits in modern appliances this seems to be another bane for us.

Tisha Hayes, AA4HA
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Ms. Tisha Hayes, AA4HA
Lookout Mountain, Alabama
WX7G
Member

Posts: 6035




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« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2010, 12:26:03 PM »

Most likely these appliances are compliant with FCC conducted and radiated RF emissions limits. This does not guarantee that they will not cause RFI to HF wireless communication.
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W2MV
Member

Posts: 207




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« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2010, 08:42:44 AM »

When the appliances are not operating, I cannot detect any RFI in my receiver, at least I haven't found any yet. When either the dishwasher or washer are operating, the RFI is horrific!
I suppose the good news is that the dishwasher and washer are not used that frequently. The refrigerator seems OK, and since that's on all of the time, it's good news.

I will eventually filter all of the power cords; the dishwasher will be tricky since it's hard-wired with BX cable going into it's junction box but I'll figure something out.
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AH6OY
Member

Posts: 11




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« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2013, 12:43:46 AM »

So what did you guys do?

I've got a brand new Kenmore Elite dishwasher that ought to have the model name of S9.
Main problem is it's low energy whoopty-do takes an hour or 2 going real quite through its cycles.
Lot's of led's on the panel. Lot's of miserable noise that sounds like car ignition noise but the noise blanker doesn't take it out. Yah you know how miserable it is.
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WX7G
Member

Posts: 6035




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« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2013, 06:38:35 AM »

AH6OY, it turns out that washing machines are exempt from FCC conducted and radiated EMI testing by the "white goods exemption."

At least one ham here at eham has installed an off-the-shelf EMI filter and his RFI problem was fixed. Digikey stocks many suitable Line Filters. An example is:

Delta Electronics 30DBCS5B, 250 VAC, 30 A, stud lugs, $22.65

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?vendor=0&keywords=Delta+Electronics+30DBCS5B


The filter is mounted where the AC power cord enters the washing machine. It is bolted to the washer enclosure, making solid electrical contact. If you prefer a filter having flying leads - so you can connect things up using wire nuts - this filter is suitable.

Shaffner EMC FN2010-20-07, 250 VAC, 20A, Lead Wire, $$16.39

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?pv258=23&FV=fff40034%2Cfff801c8%2C30008e%2C30008f%2C300099%2C380012%2C380131%2C38043c%2C38047b%2C540040%2C1140006&k=filter&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&stock=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25


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K5LXP
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Posts: 4480


WWW

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« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2013, 06:51:02 AM »

So what did you guys do?

Wash clothes when I'm not on the air.  The machines work just fine when I'm at work or asleep.  Work it out with the XYL for some quiet time on the air.  It's not too often you have a "clothes emergency" where it couldn't wait a few hours or even a couple of days.  A lot easier to do this than mess around with all sorts of EMI measures if the quick/simple ones don't work.


Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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WX7G
Member

Posts: 6035




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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2013, 11:47:47 AM »

Mark,
I have to admit that although I'm an EMC Engineer (among other things and consulting these days) I've been too lazy to add EMI filtering to the battery charger in my travel trailer. When I want to go on the air I flip the AC breaker to shut it and its RFI off!

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N0FPE
Member

Posts: 364




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« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2013, 12:13:14 PM »

My Maytag washer has a VFD that is just all noise. You can tell when the unit switches directions and speeds up to spin. I just don't get on the radio when it is operating. Not hard to do. put in a load as I head to bed or off to work...aint no big thing..

Dan
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WB6DGN
Member

Posts: 617




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« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2013, 08:10:21 PM »

Quote
Fortunately the display failed but the unit still works (sans display) and the interference problem went away.

Ah! Ha!  With or without a little help on the side?
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