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Author Topic: Samsung HDTV and 40M  (Read 16838 times)
W7VO
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« on: August 20, 2010, 02:34:17 PM »

I just bought a new top-of-the-line 55 inch Samsung C7000 flat screen LED TV and now have an RFI issue where 1500W of output on a 40M inverted vee about 50 feet away causes the television to switch its input setting, ie; "HDMI 3" to "HDMI 1", or to "Analog". RF is apparently getting into the microprocessor and changing electronic settings.

Anybody else run into this? I'd hate to have to tell my wife she has to watch another TV in the evenings during contest weekends.

I have not tried ferrite beading the power line, but that will be where I start Huh.

73;

Mike, W7VO

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KF7CG
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« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2010, 12:12:48 PM »

Call Samsung Technical Support, their designs should be resistant to that kind of a problem. They may have a fix available. It is a good place to start and keeps them on notice to watch their EMI sensitivity.

KF7CG
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W5DC
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« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2010, 12:27:48 PM »

I ran into this same kind of problem on a Samsung monitor which I returned to Costco and replaced with a LDG monitor which doesn't have that problem, at least not at the 100 watt transmit level.

Dunc, W5DC
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W7VO
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2010, 03:21:16 PM »

Well, the Samsung technician just left. The good news is that he actually identified what the problem is, the bad news is that there is no easy fix.

It seems that RF is causing the touch sensor buttons (controlling inputs, volume, channels, etc.) on the TV's bezel to fire. These work just like the old touch sensor lights where you could touch the base of the lamp and fire off a SCR to light a lamp.

The "fix" is to unplug the sensor board and just use the remote control to control the TV. With the touch sensor board unplugged even 1500W keyed down on 40M did not cause any problems.

The technician is going to report this to Samsung and see what they have to say.
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K5BAK
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2013, 06:43:01 AM »

I finally got up the nerve to attack the problem with my Samsung 55 inch led. The problem you ask, yep every time I tuned up worked cw just about anything a radio operator does the TV some 75 ft away on the other end of the house would change channels changed inputs, turned the volume up or down and yes turned the TV on and off. Sounds irritating doesn't it, just throw a family in the mix and see what happens. OK calm down if you have this problem I have the fix and no its not putting all your gear in the closet for a better day.
My equipment is a TS 570d Al-1500 and a Windom OCF dipole. I was told this antenna is a little rfy if you will, that's my term.
I started at the antenna I made an aircore balun I used toroid's maybe this helped I don't know but it did not fix the problem.
I even moved the antenna to a different position with no change.
I made sure the ground on the station was good. I'm sure this is good but again did not fix the problem.
I put up a resonant dipole for a test. This did not have any effect the problem remained.

Finally here I read about the touch switches on the Bessel of the TV and how the radiation from the antenna may be causing these to fire at random.
So I decided to remove the TV from the wall and take the back of and check it out. Not something that I wanted to do.

I had my son help me take it down we laid in on the carpet face down and removed all the screws around the edge and six or so place on the back. I think four were short screws and its self evident were these go. Then I removed the sheet metal back. at the bottom  you will see two long funny looking speakers mounted on to pegs these will pop off with not much effort but you only need to remove the one over the touch buttons here you will see two plugs going into a small board
Unplug the one on the inside or on the right as your looking at it. Note: look at the main board for a bigger example of the plug to see how it works. Carefully unplug it, put the speaker back in place, put the back panel back on. Now carefully put it back on the wall and go work some radio.
That's it
remember the touch switches won't work but your remote will do it all.

Doug k5bak
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W7VO
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2013, 04:52:49 PM »

I have spoken to SEVERAL others that have had to do the same thing. Thanks for putting a procedure together!

Samsung LED TV  + RF = bad thing!

73;

Mike, W7vo
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W7VO
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2013, 04:55:03 PM »

Thanks for posting a procedure for fixing this! I have not had ANY RFI issues since the Samsung tech dis-connected the touch sensors in my TV. I have talked and exchanged e-mails with quite a few other hams that were pulling their hair out over this issue.

73;

Mike, W7VO
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K2QB
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2013, 05:58:36 AM »

See my post titled Delayed RFI. I'm wondering if your fix might solve my issue as well. Going to give it a try as I don't use the touch buttons anyway.
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WB5ITT
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2013, 08:09:33 PM »

This kind of problem goes all the way back to the 70s when broadcast consoles (especially the horrible Ramko series) started using capacitive touch switches and touch lamps started to be popular...You would think the manufacturer would have fixed it by now BUT you have to think like they do....true, rf chokes or something similar may fix it, but each added part costs money..maybe 50cents or less but multiply that by the number of units sold and it cuts into their profit margin...sad but true....remember, digital TVs are more computers with a TV tuner on them than the older analog jobs...

Of course, if you the owner attempts to fix it by adding chokes, caps, etc anywhere on the TV except on or around the coax and power cables external to the TV, you void the warranty...and usually the dealer techs have NO clue as to RFI/EMI fixes..

I wish you good luck!

Chris
WB5ITT
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KF7CG
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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2013, 11:13:38 AM »

On consumer electronics I have found that going up a model or two from the base in any size range helps. This is both for the  RFI problem and the functioning of the device. The wally mart specials are not your friend, neither are the electronics supermarket deals. A model or two up is a world better in all respects.

KF7CG
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K5BAK
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« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2013, 06:59:01 PM »

Thats funny, the first line of this post states its top of the line unit as is mine supposed to be state of the art tv. Just a bad idea to use those touch buttons.
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KF7CG
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« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2013, 11:03:36 AM »

Main Tv at home is an LG 3D LED unit, the one that has 240 Hz refresh, it sees no interference to its touch controls even when I run 700 watts on any band. Neither does the older Direct TV receiver no touch controls.

My other TV is a Samsung LED not near as nice but not a bottom line again touch controls, it behaves the same. The newer Direct TV receiver with touch controls goes crazy even at 20 watts and it is further from the antenna.

The trouble with "top of the line" is that there are so many. Each salesman picks his own. There were several larger LG 3D sets that cost less than the one we chose. Some would call the biggest screen the top of the line, but in these cases lesser quality receivers were attached to a larger display. That gave a cheap big screen that I have no experience with.

KF7CG
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KD0REQ
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« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2013, 09:03:01 AM »

if any of you ever built the Heathkit touch switch, you know how these work.  for the rest... you have a high megohm resistive network on a CMOS gate to pretend it's protected from static whacks.  the rest is stray AC picked up by your body that flops the state of the gate over.

and the pickup disc was attached to about a 3 foot wire.

I imagine the LCD TV pickups aren't set up with the divider network because they're behind the glass protection panel.  I also imagine there isn't enough lead length to put a ferrite over, and a bypass cap would desensitize it so much you might as well unplug the sensor board.  but I bet if the manufacturers cared, they could put a SMD inductor in series.
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KB7IUV
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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2013, 01:26:05 PM »

Eureka!  This explains the exact thing I have been experiencing with my Samsung 55" with touch controls.  I have installed ferrite beads inside the TV to all wires going into the main input board and on all cables connected to the same board on the outside of the TV.  Even running 8 watts on JT65 causes an issue with my dipole.  However, 100 watts with my folded dipole causes no problems.  I will most likely try disconnecting the touch controls as we never use them anyway.  All touch-sensitive circuits are a pain.  I was getting some nasty hash when I got my new rig (been out of hobby for 12 years) and I noticed by display cabinet light kept getting turned on?  Turned out that my transmitting was turning it on and the touch circuit itself was the source of some nasty 60KHz wide trash that appeared every 234 KHz on my pan-adapter.

I'll see if this fixes my TV issue and report back as well.
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KB7IUV
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« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2013, 11:51:09 PM »

Disconnected the small cable connector on the narrow horizontally installed board near the touch controls.  Still able to use TV remote as IR receiver is a separate board nearby.  Have no use for touch controls especially when they affected by RF. 

That seems to have solved the problem.  I have been tearing my hair out and hearing it from the wife.  Tonight I was running JT65 at 10 watts and CW and USB at 100 watts with no more issues!  Wife can now watch her TV shows and I can play radio.
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