Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: Prev 1 [2]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Station and Antenna Grounding  (Read 7136 times)
KJ6NWU
Member

Posts: 2




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2011, 04:34:21 PM »

I had just moved in to an upstairs apartment in an old building. Attempting to take a bath that evening, (old building, no shower) I felt like I was being electrocuted as I stepped into the tub. I later measured 90VAC from the faucet to the drain. Later that week, when talking to my new downstairs neighbor, she told me her dog would bark to tell her the phone was ringing. He was chained to the outside water faucet and his feet would get tickled when ringer voltage came in on her line.

Bottom line is that even when it was code, grounding to the water pipes was a bad idea. Even if you make it work well, at best you have an "improved bad idea", code or not.

Break a leg...
KJ6NWU
Hollywood, CA
Logged

Break a leg...
Jeff Bradford KJ6NWU
in Hollywood, CA USA
AA4PB
Member

Posts: 12696




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2011, 06:55:46 AM »

"I later measured 90VAC from the faucet to the drain"

That's exactly why the code REQUIRES you to bond conductive plumbing to the electrical grounding system and why you are required to have your radio system ground bonded to the electrical system ground. If its all connected together with heavy guage wire then there can't possibly be a significant voltage difference between "grounds". That wire you often see between the electrical panel and plumbing is NOT the electrical system ground. It is the bond that ties the two systems together. The panel should have an additional grounding wire going outside to a ground rod.
Logged
K1CJS
Member

Posts: 5885




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2011, 10:23:49 AM »

I had just moved in to an upstairs apartment in an old building. Attempting to take a bath that evening, (old building, no shower) I felt like I was being electrocuted as I stepped into the tub. I later measured 90VAC from the faucet to the drain. Later that week, when talking to my new downstairs neighbor, she told me her dog would bark to tell her the phone was ringing. He was chained to the outside water faucet and his feet would get tickled when ringer voltage came in on her line.

Bottom line is that even when it was code, grounding to the water pipes was a bad idea. Even if you make it work well, at best you have an "improved bad idea", code or not.

The reason for the voltage present on the cold water pipes is because the telephone company connected its ground to the water pipes when the house was built.  With the passing of the years, its all too possible that the ground connection from the plumbing to the ground rod was removed--or more likely that the incoming water main pipe was replaced with plastic.

In other words, the water pipe ground was removed and never replaced--which is against code.  The fix is obvious--reconnect the ground or drive in a ground rod and reconnect the ground that was removed from the old water pipe.

You do not remove or eliminate protection--and yet the city/town water department does it all the time during mains replacement.  Their excuse--that that isn't their job--is a poor excuse for potentially killing someone.   
Logged
KI6FCL
Member

Posts: 6




Ignore
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2011, 05:52:40 PM »

After reading the comments... all I can I say is that I like things to FAIL SAFE(ly).
Logged
K1CJS
Member

Posts: 5885




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2011, 09:56:46 AM »

I had just moved in to an upstairs apartment in an old building. Attempting to take a bath that evening, (old building, no shower) I felt like I was being electrocuted as I stepped into the tub. I later measured 90VAC from the faucet to the drain. Later that week, when talking to my new downstairs neighbor, she told me her dog would bark to tell her the phone was ringing. He was chained to the outside water faucet and his feet would get tickled when ringer voltage came in on her line.

Bottom line is that even when it was code, grounding to the water pipes was a bad idea. Even if you make it work well, at best you have an "improved bad idea", code or not.

The telephone system uses 90 volts.  What you felt was the ring signal when you were stepping into the tub.  Someones phone was ringing.

The telephone company ALWAYS used to--and still does--connect to the water pipes in a building WITH METAL WATER PIPES simply because the NEC specified that the metallic water pipes HAVE TO BE connected to the common ground point in any building.  With the move to PVC piping and the use of PVC tubing from the water main to the basements of newer buildings AND OF REPLACING THE ORIGINAL METALLIC PIPE WITH PVC PIPE WHEN WATER MAINS ARE REPLACED, most of the old buildings that used the incoming water pipe for a common point ground were left without a ground on their electrical system--except for the common ground through the incoming electrical supply line.
Logged
Pages: Prev 1 [2]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!