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Author Topic: Procedure after calling CQ With no Answer  (Read 4361 times)
AE5QB
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Posts: 265




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« on: February 04, 2011, 09:45:04 PM »

Sorry if this is basic, but I am a basic CW operator at this point. Could someone pls explain the proper procedure to use after calling CW and not getting an answer?  If I decide to stay on frequency, I will just call CQ again.  But if I do not get an answer and decide to change frequencies do I just change or is the proper protocol to send SK and my call sign before changing?  Or maybe something else.

Also, what is the proper response during a QSO when nearly an entire transmission is lost to QRM or QSB?  If I miss something I can ask to repeat all after or all between X and y.  But if all I can make out are a few characters now and then, what is the proper way to ask for a repeat of the entire last transmission?

Maybe an even better question would be, is there a good source of information explaining CW protocol that covers all of these types of questions?

Thanks for your patience with a novice CW operator.

Tom
AE5QB 
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N7KRT
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Posts: 17




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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2011, 04:56:46 AM »

Tom,
There is no need to send anything special prior to changing frequencies after a CQ with no response. Your CQ call was already identified, so just move on. Don't forget to listen at the new frequency before you start sending CQ again, and a QRL? (asking if the frequency is in use) prior to starting to call is good practice.

In answer to question #2, I guess it depends on the nature of the QSO. If you are handling traffic, for example, then there are specific protocols for requesting repeats of a specific section or whole transmission. In a general ragchew or casual contact, simply let the other station know that you missed some or all of the transmission. For example, "Sri OM, QRM missed ur name es QTH? <bk>" will get the idea across. Or, just tell the other station "Sri QSB, missed ur last <bk>" will get the other station to repeat what he considers essential. Sometimes, just telling the other station that copy is bad due to conditions, and thanking him for the QSO, and signing is all that needs be done. No one will take offense if a QSO is shortened by conditions...its part of the nature of HF contacts, and part of the magic as well.

Look up "Your Novice Accent", an old but still pretty much valid primer on CW ops that was published in QST many many years ago. Still good advice. And back in the day, the ARRL Operating Manual used to have good info, but I haven't looked at one for many years...There is a lot of good info I found googling "CW operating procedures".

In the meantime, just get on the air and make contacts. Have fun, and don't stress too much about protocol. After a few dozens of QSOs, you will get comfortable with the nature of HF operating, and will learn from the folks you contact.

73,
Jeff N7KRT
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STAYVERTICAL
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Posts: 854




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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2011, 05:10:55 AM »

Hi Tom,

As another CW op, I would like to re-iterate what Jeff said.
He pretty well covered it.
The fact that you are concerned enough to post a question speaks well of your future on CW and ham radio.

Good luck and 73s
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AE5QB
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Posts: 265




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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2011, 10:59:21 AM »

 Wink STAYVERTICAL -- Is that an antenna or health related alias?

Thanks for the advice.  I have read "Your Novice Accent" and it is good information.  I am interested in formal traffic handling so I am looking in that direction.  I'll do more googling and thanks for the feedback. 

I am a bit anal and a bit of a perfectionist so I worry about looking like a fool on line.  I guess that old line "Better to remain quiet and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" doesn't really apply to learning CW ops.

I have only made 5 QSO's on CW but I will say that it has been a lot of fun, although nerve racking, and my contacts have been wonderfully patient and supportive in all cases.  My first QSO took close to 30 minutes just to get the basic information exchanged and a couple of additional exchanges.  I have also received several emails after the fact telling me to take it easy on myself, don't worry about messing up, and just go for it.  I even received a radiogram welcoming me into SKCC.

Needless to say, I have been very impressed with the CW crowd and am looking forward to many more QSO's in the future.

Thanks for all of the support.

73,

Tom
AE5QB
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W5ESE
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Posts: 550


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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2011, 11:38:48 AM »

Glad that you are enjoying CW.

Since you mentioned that you are interested in traffic handling, I thought I'd plug the Texas CW NTS
nets.

The Texas Slow Net is a slow speed CW traffic handling and training net. It meets daily on 3552 KHz,
at 7:45 pm. I have some information about it on my site at:

http://sites.google.com/site/arsw5ese/home/texas-slow-net

The Texas CW Net runs at a little faster clip, at 7 and 10 pm daily, on 3541 KHz. There is some
information about it, and downloadable monthly newsletters, at:

http://web.me.com/sr_phillips/Site/K6JT_TEX/

An overview of formal CW traffic net operating procedures is at:

http://www.qsl.net/n5lf/cw-nts.html

Sadly, N5LF became a Silent Key a few years ago, at much too young an age.

Hope this helps.
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NU1O
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Posts: 2597




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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2011, 12:02:16 PM »

Tom,

I am a perfectionist myself, so I know how you hard you must try so you don't make mistakes. You just have to make up your mind that you will make mistakes.  Both in sending and sometimes just drawing a blank and not copying anything.  Nobody Transmits and Receives perfect CW from the start so just get in there and work as many stations as you can. I am SKCC # 7577 and they have a frequency where members help novices. I think it is 7.014 but don't hold me to it.

73

Chris NU1O
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NW0M
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Posts: 24




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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2011, 01:13:01 PM »

The frequency is 7.114 where SKCC members will answer and help a slow op CW qso.
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KC9TNH
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Posts: 304




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« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2011, 10:07:53 AM »

The frequency is 7.114 where SKCC members will answer and help a slow op CW qso.
Thank you sir, thanks Tom for the question and all who've lent their experience; that is worth the price of admission at twice the clicks.
"Almost" had a first contact the other night, got the first half of the gent or lady calling me back then QRM.

Am probably not the only recent licensee to have read band plans and wonder "huh?" when some monster signal at 30wpm jumps on a long-established slo-net. Have surmised that it's simply best to politely keep on plugging, and it will happen, and on the list of "things I can't control."
That half a contact at least verified that I was learning something & had gotten out; was so tickled it was like "Hark! A voice in the wilderness."
 Grin

So we keep plugging and thanks, to KA7-WhoeverYouAre, I will.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2011, 10:18:31 AM by KC9TNH » Logged

73
Wes -KC9TNH
"Don't get treed by a chihuahua." - Pete
KE4JOY
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Posts: 1335




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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2011, 11:58:33 AM »

One thing to consider is if and when you do find a clear spot and send your CQ don't just give up and move after one or two tries. Keep trying and of course listening...

Often I will hear a CQ and go to respond only to realize the xmitter is still set up for another band or the tuner is off or the qsk switch has no power to it, so I have a little bit to do before I can respond. Only takes a few moments but hopefully the calling station will still be there when I am ready.

In other words just because you don't get a prompt response does not mean no one is hearing you.
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KC9TNH
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Posts: 304




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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2011, 01:18:07 PM »

One thing to consider is if and when you do find a clear spot and send your CQ don't just give up and move after one or two tries. Keep trying and of course listening...

Often I will hear a CQ and go to respond only to realize the xmitter is still set up for another band or the tuner is off or the qsk switch has no power to it, so I have a little bit to do before I can respond. Only takes a few moments but hopefully the calling station will still be there when I am ready.

In other words just because you don't get a prompt response does not mean no one is hearing you.
A great point, and another thank you. Have experienced that as well being hungry for that QSO, especially when I hear someone that is, quite literally, my speed. Listen to grab essentials, zero beat, make sure everything's in order... and they've apparently left.

One thing I have quickly learned RE copying live (which is much different than recorded learning materials) is that learning to grab the essentials has gotten easier & patiently listening anyway has improved my copy overall. Glass half full.
 Smiley
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73
Wes -KC9TNH
"Don't get treed by a chihuahua." - Pete
KE4JOY
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Posts: 1335




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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2011, 02:02:26 PM »

The ARRL code bulletins are an excellent practice source if you can tune them in.

It is more or less random content taken from the pages of QST so you don't get comfortable with the 'canned' QSO's. They have speeds from 5 to 20 wpm.

http://www.arrl.org/w1aw-operating-schedule

Of course the best practice is to conduct qso's on the air. Something about shifting from sending to receiving active vs passive activity that reinforces the learning.

I'll keep an ear open for you.
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KC9TNH
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Posts: 304




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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2011, 04:51:07 AM »

Of course the best practice is to conduct qso's on the air. Something about shifting from sending to receiving active vs passive activity that reinforces the learning.

I'll keep an ear open for you.
Thanks sir. Wasn't going to post in this one again but last night had first QSO; lasted about 15 minutes till reception went south with both QRN and another op on top of the contact. Still it's an example of "just keep at it" that experienced folks have said here.

Chagrin for me was that I'd forgotten to connect & use the pwr supply and the little 817 was only running on its default 2.5w - good thing the batt pak started out topped off. Not bad for W Central WI to Pensacola. Glass getting fuller; just have to keep expectations in line with what I have to play with. I should look that up & see how far that is.
 Grin
« Last Edit: February 14, 2011, 10:09:17 AM by KC9TNH » Logged

73
Wes -KC9TNH
"Don't get treed by a chihuahua." - Pete
AE4RV
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Posts: 934


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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2011, 07:11:51 AM »

Congrats, that's terrific!
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KE3WD
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Posts: 5694




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« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2011, 08:35:06 AM »


Also, what is the proper response during a QSO when nearly an entire transmission is lost to QRM or QSB?  If I miss something I can ask to repeat all after or all between X and y.  But if all I can make out are a few characters now and then, what is the proper way to ask for a repeat of the entire last transmission?

Send a question mark. 

The old, 'diddy-dum-dum-diddy' in this situation will tell the other party that someone is out there but wasn't able to read the last transmission -- unless, of course, the other party cannot hear you either.


73
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KE4JOY
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Posts: 1335




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« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2011, 09:35:46 AM »

Huh I always thought it was  'Did he Dah Dah Do it' ?  Grin
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