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Author Topic: Real time Comparison with HEX Beam and Mono Band Mosley Yagi will be interesting  (Read 68955 times)
NN2X
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Posts: 218




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« Reply #60 on: March 26, 2013, 05:39:17 AM »

Around the 2011 in Feb, I tried to compare the Hex Beam  to the Yagi Mono bander, and the antenna broke (The Mast)...This was my fault...nothing to do with the Antenna

However, since then K4KIO created a Hex Beam that was modified HEX using G3TXQ...Iordered this antenna, for my comparison


For the comparison, I will switch from Test System A to Test System B using each of the 15 Meter antenna arrays

For test A System, I have a 45 Tower and a 10 foot mast, with a 3 element Mono Bander (Yagi) from Hy Gain, using a 12 foot Boom, up at 50 feet., with Install, concrete, yeasue rotor, and I have two other Mono banders (20 Meter 3 element, and 4 element mono bander for 10 meters) / Costs nearly 7,000 (USD)


For test B System, I have a 25 mast, with a radio shack rotor, and Hex Beam (K4KIO / Using G3TQX Design), costs about 750 (USD)

Results, quite frankly, astounding...The Hex beam performed only 1 S unit less then the mono bander, and I will conclude if the antenna was up at 50 ft (The Hex Beam) the results would be at least the same..

The bootom line, if I would had went the Hex Beam route, and put up the 50 ft mast, there would had been very little difference, and I would had saved, 6,000 (USD)..

My antenna systems is on QRZ Site (Just plug in NN2X), and you will see the antenna systems (Hex and Mono Banders)
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KA7NIQ
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Posts: 317


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« Reply #61 on: March 26, 2013, 07:07:02 AM »

Around the 2011 in Feb, I tried to compare the Hex Beam  to the Yagi Mono bander, and the antenna broke (The Mast)...This was my fault...nothing to do with the Antenna

However, since then K4KIO created a Hex Beam that was modified HEX using G3TXQ...Iordered this antenna, for my comparison


For the comparison, I will switch from Test System A to Test System B using each of the 15 Meter antenna arrays

For test A System, I have a 45 Tower and a 10 foot mast, with a 3 element Mono Bander (Yagi) from Hy Gain, using a 12 foot Boom, up at 50 feet., with Install, concrete, yeasue rotor, and I have two other Mono banders (20 Meter 3 element, and 4 element mono bander for 10 meters) / Costs nearly 7,000 (USD)


For test B System, I have a 25 mast, with a radio shack rotor, and Hex Beam (K4KIO / Using G3TQX Design), costs about 750 (USD)

Results, quite frankly, astounding...The Hex beam performed only 1 S unit less then the mono bander, and I will conclude if the antenna was up at 50 ft (The Hex Beam) the results would be at least the same..

The bootom line, if I would had went the Hex Beam route, and put up the 50 ft mast, there would had been very little difference, and I would had saved, 6,000 (USD)..

My antenna systems is on QRZ Site (Just plug in NN2X), and you will see the antenna systems (Hex and Mono Banders)
And, if you had ordered your Hex Beam from NA4RR instead of K4KIO, you would have saved nearly 200.00 !
Both the K4KIO and The NA4RR Hex Beam are based on Steve Hunt's design (G3TXQ), and both antennas seem very well made.
The NA4RR Hex Beam simply costs less (nearly 200.00 less) then the K4KIO version of the G3TXQ Design.

I did not go with a Hex Beam, because I wanted 40 meters. I went with the Hy Gain Explorer 14, and the 40 meter add on kit.
The NA4RR Hex Beam would have given me 17, 12, and 6 meters that the Hy Gain Explorer 14 does not, but oh well ...

Glad you made your comparison, and thanks for posting the results!
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K0OD
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« Reply #62 on: March 26, 2013, 08:00:27 AM »

Quote
The bootom line, if I would had went the Hex Beam route, and put up the 50 ft mast, there would had been very little difference, and I would had saved, 6,000 (USD)..

I believe several posters predicted such a result. A silly waste.
 
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WH7DX
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Posts: 1029




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« Reply #63 on: March 26, 2013, 11:54:37 AM »

NN2X, 

Thanks for sharing your information.

I've been using a Hex Beam from K4KIO for about a year or so now.   Works very well.  Light, fairly small..  cheap.. I have 6 Bands on it, simple galvanized fencing poles holding it up.   LP around the world when conditions are right.  Can't complain.   Great antenna.

I believe it matches up very well with a 2 element Yagi.. which it basically is.

The difference between a 3 and 2 element might be 1/2 to 1 S unit I believe.

I'm thinking about going with a SpiderBeam when it's time to replace the hex beam (salt water / wear)... The SpiderBeam is about 12ft wider, same weight and represents a 3 element yagi.

So, for the same cost, same weight and close approx. size..  I'm thinking take a little more.   It's like going from a 800W amp to 1200+ watt amp... right there.

There is NO WAY I'd deal with the cost, sight, hassle and danger of putting up a tower anywhere near my house when I could put a Hex or Spider antenna and paint it flat black and make great contacts.       

Bryan
WH7DX
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KA7NIQ
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« Reply #64 on: March 26, 2013, 12:25:09 PM »

NN2X, 

Thanks for sharing your information.

I've been using a Hex Beam from K4KIO for about a year or so now.   Works very well.  Light, fairly small..  cheap.. I have 6 Bands on it, simple galvanized fencing poles holding it up.   LP around the world when conditions are right.  Can't complain.   Great antenna.

I believe it matches up very well with a 2 element Yagi.. which it basically is.

The difference between a 3 and 2 element might be 1/2 to 1 S unit I believe.

I'm thinking about going with a SpiderBeam when it's time to replace the hex beam (salt water / wear)... The SpiderBeam is about 12ft wider, same weight and represents a 3 element yagi.

So, for the same cost, same weight and close approx. size..  I'm thinking take a little more.   It's like going from a 800W amp to 1200+ watt amp... right there.

There is NO WAY I'd deal with the cost, sight, hassle and danger of putting up a tower anywhere near my house when I could put a Hex or Spider antenna and paint it flat black and make great contacts.       

Bryan
WH7DX
For what they are, Hex Beams do a decent job. But make no mistake!
They are no match for larger yagi and quad antennas.
LOL, serious contesters do not use Hex Beams.

The Spider Beam will crush the smaller Hex Beams, and it will also crush many smaller tribanders as well.

To some "the little bit of difference" between a Hex Beam and a larger Yagi or Quad is not important.
But, in a pileup, even a DB or so of Gain might mean the difference between being heard, or not.







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PD2R
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Posts: 143




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« Reply #65 on: March 26, 2013, 03:56:52 PM »

Brian WH7DX, please be advised, I think a Spiderbeam is not as strong as a Hexbeam. I own a Hexbeam and together with 2 other hams I also own two Heavy Duty Spiderbeams.
We really love the Spiderbeams for portable use but I don't want to put one on my roof permanently. It's very light weight but it is also pretty large.
In fact, one of our hexbeams was owned by one of our Danish friends who had it installed on a 50 ft tower. It broke one of the fiberglass spreaders during a mild storm. Maybe that particular spreader was flawed to begin with, I don't know.
Now, I'm not saying Spiderbeams are bad, heck we own two of them!. I'm just not sure they are as durable as a Hexbeam.


73, Maarten PD2R/OV2T
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WH7DX
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Posts: 1029




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« Reply #66 on: March 26, 2013, 11:11:50 PM »

I believe the original spiderbeams were a little weaker.   Some were using the DX portable antenna's (in a bag) for full time use which they weren't designed for..  they have heavy duty spiderbeams now meant to be mounted full time.. or just build your own.

As for the message regarding a spiderbeam have a noticeable difference with the hexbeam.. that's not the data.   It's a slight improvement.   Maybe 1/2 a unit or so.  I was just saying, if an extra 12 feet isn't a big deal, and the weight is the same.. then that little extra might make sense.

If you want to spend $5000 for a tower with a large yagi and deal with maintenance being a "serious" DX'r than it obviously won't stack up.. but I can't count the number of times a guy with a huge Yagi tower was amazed that I was coming LP 20k miles and was 59 with a little hex beam and 600w...   again.. I do have a good location..... 

For the average Ham.. both the Hex and Spider are great antennas covering 6M up to 20M unless you feel real ballsy and want to build a 40M   Smiley


 

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KZ4USA
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Posts: 227




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« Reply #67 on: May 31, 2017, 04:38:07 PM »

Some people forget what gain a single Dipole has  W8JI will tell you.
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AC6CV
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Posts: 290




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« Reply #68 on: June 03, 2017, 07:01:30 PM »

The advantage of a hexbeam is multiband like 2 meters through 20 meters, no traps, low wind load, rotatable and reasonable gain. I've put up lots of antennas and that is quite an achievement.
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KM1H
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Posts: 2036




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« Reply #69 on: June 05, 2017, 02:13:10 PM »

Some people forget what gain a single Dipole has  W8JI will tell you.

Will he?

In the real world and not theoretical, the full size 1/2 wave dipole is the standard of comparison and it has no gain. Additional gain, or loss, can be realized by its height and the ground effect gain.
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N4KC
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« Reply #70 on: June 05, 2017, 02:40:55 PM »

   
Actually...and I believe W8JI would agree with me..."gain" is a relative term. That is, "gain" of an antenna, an amplifier, or anything else that concentrates or increases a signal is always given in relationship to something else. The two primary "something elses" when it comes to antennas is a dipole in free space and an isotropic--or perfect radiator--source, which is theoretical and non-existent in the real world. An isotropic antenna is an ideal antenna that radiates its power uniformly in all directions. There is no actual physical isotropic antenna. Of course, for most of us, a dipole in free space is non-existent, too, since there is almost always some other factor, such as the dirt below it, the vegetation around it, or the kids' swing set next to it.

But a gain figure should be referenced between one object and another. A dipole has no gain over itself. A 3-element Yagi may have 10 db gain...over a known dipole, over a 2-element hexbeam, or over a wet shoestring.

(Definitions from THE AMATEUR RADIO DICTIONARY by Don Keith N4KC.)

73,

Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com
 
 
 

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KM1H
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« Reply #71 on: June 05, 2017, 03:20:57 PM »

But a gain figure should be referenced between one object and another. A dipole has no gain over itself. A 3-element Yagi may have 10 db gain...over a known dipole, over a 2-element hexbeam, or over a wet shoestring.

Using dBd has long been an accepted definition which translates to some gain above zero.
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N4KC
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« Reply #72 on: June 05, 2017, 07:35:14 PM »

 
Correct. "Accepted" but not always followed. Antenna manufacturers will often quote gain over "dbi," that perfect but non-existent radiator with no gain whatsoever. That number will always be higher than gain over a dipole in free space...dbd...which does have gain in, usually, two directions over the isotropic source.

73,

Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com
   
   
 
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W9IQ
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« Reply #73 on: June 06, 2017, 03:19:56 AM »

The standard reference used in antenna engineering is dBi. All of the math in this discipline of engineering centers around the isotropic antenna. Even the Friis equation and free space path loss are based on the isotropic antenna.

A perfect dipole in free space has a directivity of 1.65 and therefore a gain of 2.15 dBi. Gain is defined as directivity times efficiency and typically expressed in dB form with the isotropic as the basis for comparison.

But if you build a dipole and install it close to earth, the efficiency can be quite high (but not 100%) and the ground reflections will often increase its directivity. So you have a real world dipole that has gain over a theoretical dipole. To say the least, it can be confusing to say your dipole has a gain of 2.5 dBd, for example.

In any case, saying an antenna has a gain of 7 dB, for example, is an ambiguous statement. An antenna engineer would assume dBi if there was no other contextual reference. Antenna manufactures will almost always reference dBi gains because it presents the highest gain figures.

Also take note that the unit abbreviation is dB, not db.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

I never make a mistake. I thought I did once but I was wrong.
KM4AH
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« Reply #74 on: June 06, 2017, 04:37:52 AM »

Am I wrong, or is there no such thing as gain without a corresponding loss in another direction ?
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