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Author Topic: Best bang for the buck Yagi antenna is..?  (Read 13960 times)
KA7NIQ
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« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2011, 08:33:11 PM »

Tennadyne T6 or T8 seems like a very nice choice indeed, at a good price.  My  biggest concern with LPs is the additional sqft wind loading, but those two ants arent too bad.

Thanks
I agree totally. I just bought a used Aluma Tower that happened to come with a Cush Craft ASL 2010 Sky Log, lucky me:)
I too wrestled with the decisions about what Yagi to buy.
I jump around from band to band a lot, and we have a lot of lightning here in Tampa. Plus, the SteppIR is pricey. But getting ANY beam up at my QTH will be a miracle, and I don't want, or need anything to go wrong. For a 5 band put it up and leave it up antenna, The Log Periodics win.
I do feel the 3 Element SteppIR will outperform it.

The Hex Beams are a great little antenna, but at only 2 elements are going to be down in gain to  an 18 ft or longer Log. Even the little Tennadyne T 6 probably has more gain then a Hex Beam. But for what it IS, a Hex Beam is a darn decent antenna.

As for the Mosley TA 33 or the Cush Craft A 3, they might outperform the 18 Foot Tennadyne and Cush Craft Logs on a certain part of a certain band.
Many mistakenly think they are "3 element antennas".
Yes, they have 3 elements, but spacing is only optimum on one band, and all else is a compromise. Then, when you factor in the traps, limited bandwidth, and no ability to work 12 and 17 meters, why bother ?

IF I had the room, no question what I would do. I would have a long boom balls to the walls Log Periodic up about 72 feet.

I suggest you read the reviews on the Log  Periodics, and see all the Hams who replaced well known Tri Banders with them ?


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N3ZC
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« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2011, 11:43:50 AM »

To make a long story short as far as LPs..

A quote from another Ham elsewhere on eham:

  " The LP by it's name is a 'wide band' config and it's only claim to fame."  Wink

  Good Luck with your decision!
                73'..Tom N3ZC
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KA7NIQ
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« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2011, 12:55:39 PM »

To make a long story short as far as LPs..

A quote from another Ham elsewhere on eham:

  " The LP by it's name is a 'wide band' config and it's only claim to fame."  Wink

  Good Luck with your decision!
                73'..Tom N3ZC

Well, to quote a popular preacher "The world will end on May 21st".  I am still alive, as far as I know.
Here is a LPDA VS Yagi thread http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?177753-Multi-Band-Yagi-vs.-Log-Periodic-What-s-the-Difference that is interesting reading.

I agree, if you are only trying to cover 3 HF bands like 10 15 and 20, a 3 element tri band yagi is better then a Log.
But when you try to cover the 5 HF Bands from 10 through 20 meters, I think a Log Periodic is a great way to do it.
The advantages of the Yagi disappear once you start adding traps, and other elements to the boom to cover all the bands.
In fact, some multi band antennas have been shown to not work near as well as claimed. It is difficult to make a 5 band yagi antenna that will perform as good as a Log Periodic.
Many people compare Monoband Yagi's with Log Periodics, and the Yagi wins every time. But, a multiband Yagi is NOT a Monobander, far from it. A 3 band Yagi is a compromise antenna, and the compromises get even worse yet as we attempt to make that 3 band antenna cover 5 bands!

Every antenna has it's place, in the scheme of things. But for a directional antenna covering 5 HF bands with no traps, low SWR everywhere, decent gain, and nothing to go wrong, how are you going to beat a Log Periodic ?





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N4UM
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« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2011, 04:36:00 PM »

I had a Tennadyne T-8 for over ten years at several different QTHs.  It was completely maintenance free even though less than 100 feet from salt water and, as an added bonus, worked like a champ on 6 meters even though it was rated only for 20 thru 10 meters.  It was lightweight and stood up well in the 100+ MPH hurricane winds it experienced on several occasions.  It's not a Yagi but mine was  an extremely reliable antenna capable of operating on 6 bands with significant gain and F/B.  Wish I could put one up in the HOA Nazi run geriatric ghetto where I'm spending my "golden years!"  I'd rate the Tennadyne T-8 as the best bang per buck in a beam antenna.  BTW my choice in the same category for verticals would be the Hustler BTV series.
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KA7NIQ
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« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2011, 06:41:56 PM »

I had a Tennadyne T-8 for over ten years at several different QTHs.  It was completely maintenance free even though less than 100 feet from salt water and, as an added bonus, worked like a champ on 6 meters even though it was rated only for 20 thru 10 meters.  It was lightweight and stood up well in the 100+ MPH hurricane winds it experienced on several occasions.  It's not a Yagi but mine was  an extremely reliable antenna capable of operating on 6 bands with significant gain and F/B.  Wish I could put one up in the HOA Nazi run geriatric ghetto where I'm spending my "golden years!"  I'd rate the Tennadyne T-8 as the best bang per buck in a beam antenna.  BTW my choice in the same category for verticals would be the Hustler BTV series.
LOL, You are correct about Homeowner Associations being like Nazi's. I still work, and clean roofs for a living in Tampa http://www.saferoofcleaning.com People call us all the time because they are forced to clean their roofs, or else. Often, the roofs are barely dirty, yet the HOA forces senior citizens on fixed incomes to spend money needlessly.
I like the Hustler Verticals too, as long as you get some radials under them.
Us Hams are never going to all agree about antennas, and it's all good Smiley
They are fun to talk about.
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WA8FOZ
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« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2011, 07:39:02 PM »

SteppIRs are wonderful, but they will require maintenance. If I had one, I would want a tower that I could take down very easily, crank-up/tiltover or something.

My tower cranks but does not tilt over. I have a Force12 (a C3S). It has performed well and lasted through 10 years of Ohio weather, several ice storms and many 50+ and several 70+ mph storms without problems.

Hex beams are not overwhelming performers but seem to work about as well as many of the older trap tribanders, and are light and easy to handle. I'm sure I'd be very happy with one. For me, durability and low maintenance were important; hence the Force12. You have a lot of good choices. If this is your first hf beam, you will be pleased with any of them. Enjoy!

73,
Bill WA8FOZ
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KA7NIQ
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« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2011, 07:53:34 PM »

The Force 12 you have Bill is a great antenna! It also works pretty well on 12 and 17, and since there are no traps, you need not be concerned operating it off resonance!
I agree, for what they are, the little Hex Beams do a decent job. They are small and light, I have even seen them do well on push up poles. I say just get SOMETHING up in the air. This sun spot cycle is starting to come alive, and for several of us, it may very well be our last. 
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N3ZC
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« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2011, 04:15:59 AM »

"Every antenna has it's place, in the scheme of things. But for a directional antenna covering 5 HF bands with no traps, low SWR everywhere, decent gain, and nothing to go wrong, how are you going to beat a Log Periodic ? "

In the pile-ups with my SteppIr & Alpha as usual..but I digress... Grin

For you "Log" Fans..here's a few Log Commercials!...
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP0kWqJJZa4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9jnuz3ui8w&feature=related

                         73'..Tom N3ZC

                

                    



« Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 04:31:54 AM by N3ZC » Logged
N3ZC
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« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2011, 04:33:49 AM »

"Every antenna has it's place, in the scheme of things. But for a directional antenna covering 5 HF bands with no traps, low SWR everywhere, decent gain, and nothing to go wrong, how are you going to beat a Log Periodic ? "

In the pile-ups with my SteppIR, like always..but I digress... Grin

And for you "Log" fans out there..here's a few Log Commercials!...
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP0kWqJJZa4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9jnuz3ui8w&feature=related


                         73'..Tom N3ZC

                

                    




[/quote]
« Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 04:47:17 AM by N3ZC » Logged
AD4U
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« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2011, 05:40:37 AM »

IMO the best bang for the buck are home brew mono-band yagis.  The longer the boom and the the more elements the better.  If you have to buy something, again (IMO) Mosley makes the best multi-band yagis, but they don't mind pricing them "up there".

Typically a short boom (14 feet or less) tri-band yagi will "work", but when compared with the better antennas, they don't work very well.

Dick  AD4U
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N3ZC
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« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2011, 06:19:46 AM »

FYI..

Here is a recent (today) review of a popular Log..Enjoy.. Wink
   
       http://www.eham.net/reviews/review/100817

                    73'..Tom N3ZC
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KA7NIQ
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« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2011, 07:22:47 AM »

FYI..

Here is a recent (today) review of a popular Log..Enjoy.. Wink
   
       http://www.eham.net/reviews/review/100817

                    73'..Tom N3ZC
That "review" was just written Today, I find it odd you just "found it".   And, the person who wrote that 'review' has NO CALL SIGN.

 That makes that "Review" as worthless as balls on a Spayed Cat. When people see a 'review' like that, with NO Call Sign, they recognize an obvious Hatchet Job.
It matters not anyway, even IF it was a real review.
You have nearly 48 Ham Radio Operators WITH Call Signs praising the Tennadyne Log Periodics.

BTW, I own a Cush Craft ASL 2010 Log Periodic, not a Tennadyne.

I can't prove YOU wrote that 'review', but I must be honest, I suspect you did.
I would be careful, if you did.
That 'review' might make a lot of Tennadyne Owners upset, who could easily retaliate by leaving a bad review of your SteppIR Antenna.



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KA7NIQ
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« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2011, 08:24:46 AM »

"Every antenna has it's place, in the scheme of things. But for a directional antenna covering 5 HF bands with no traps, low SWR everywhere, decent gain, and nothing to go wrong, how are you going to beat a Log Periodic ? "

In the pile-ups with my SteppIR, like always..but I digress... Grin

And for you "Log" fans out there..here's a few Log Commercials!...
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP0kWqJJZa4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9jnuz3ui8w&feature=related


                         73'..Tom N3ZC

                

                    




[/quote]

The SteppIR is a good antenna, but it is not "perfect". It too is a compromise, like all Multi Band Yagi Antennas are. Here is why. Though the elements on a SteppIR are tunable, the spacing between elements is fixed. Thus, the element spacing is optimum for one band only. All else is a compromise.
It is true the tunable elements get the most out of that particular spacing, but it is what it is, on bands away from it's optimum spaced design frequency.

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N3ZC
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« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2011, 08:49:12 AM »

No antenna is perfect...I've had a few. I was advised by several experienced (trust me & not giving their calls) ops to not waste my money on a log periodic if I wanted any kind of performance, as I DID look into it. They DO look great up there though.

You can argue till the cows come home as to what is best performance-wise. Proof is in the pudding. All of the "element spacing, boom length, calcs, etc, looks good on paper & the PC. I pay no attention to that crap. To every manufacturer, their's have the best design. I know what work's here for me, and it's no illusion..my log reflects it. I have an amp..75% of the time I don't use it.  If some like LPs, well, that's what work's for them..I'm just not really impressed with heavy, oversized TV antennas. But that's me. I'm just saying that for myself, I'd pay more for a proven design performance-wise, like I have. Moving parts?..Yup. But works!

Will a huge, heavy, LP at 75 feet out-perform my antenna @ only 40 ft?..Probably (I hope it does!)..but like for like..I don't think so..I don't drink the kool-aid as far as computer projections say.. Roll Eyes

LPs work..no question about that..for what they are

(and I gotta say the LPs DO look good...all of that aluminum in the Sun..)

   To Each Their Own.. Smiley

Found this on TowerTalk as an FYI..

"The active portion of an 8 element 13-32 MHz LP on an 18
foot boom is a small portion of the total boom length.  
Here are model data of an 8 element LP (18 foot boom),
the SteppIR 3 element yagi (16 foot boom) and Force 12
C3E (extra 10 meter director and 18 foot boom).  

The SteppIR/3 vs. 8 element LP vs. C3E (free space):
---------------------------------------------------------
                   LP            SteppIR            C3E
    Band       Gain  F/R   Gain    F/R   Gain   F/R
     20          5.0   9.2      7.4     25       6.6   10
     17          4.9  12.3      8.3     25       3.0    2
     15          4.8  13.0      8.5     20       6.2   11
     12          5.0  14.9      8.8     15       4.4    5
     10          5.1  14.5      9.0     11       7.4   23
      6             n/a        10.1     20          n/a


"On we sweep, with threshing oar, Our only goal will be the western shore"..

                     73'..Tom N3ZC

 
« Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 09:12:15 AM by N3ZC » Logged
KA7NIQ
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« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2011, 09:31:31 AM »

I agree, Log Periodics DO look good, almost like a big "Bird Of Prey" perched on top of a Tower.

Let me know when SteppIR comes up with a moving boom, so they can space the Yagi Elements properly on each and every band. Until then, the SteppIR remains a compromise antenna, like most others, including mine.
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