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Author Topic: Other than "5-9"  (Read 11143 times)
N4RSS
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Posts: 258




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« on: March 07, 2011, 08:09:28 AM »

Because lying doesn't come easy to me I like to just report the signal I see on the meter.

I caused one eastern european station some consternation on 15 meters over the weekend by giving him a 5-3 report after he gave me a 5-9.  He was perfect copy.

He asked me what receiver I was running (7600) and then suggested I send it in to get fixed.
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KE4JOY
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« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2011, 09:07:55 AM »

Maybe your meter is lying to you...  Grin

Pepole just use the 59 exchange in contests because its fast, easy, and expected.

I too like to give 'accurate' reports but if your contesting it can really stumble things up.

"Get your receiver checked"  Grin funny. How does he know you don't have a paper clip for an antenna.
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AE4RV
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« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2011, 09:24:17 AM »

"People just use the 59 exchange in contests because its fast, easy, and expected. "

An excellent answer and I think 'Expected' is the best reason. A serious contest op will get annoyed if you don't go with the flow on this one. Think of it as a pass/fail report. If you complete the contact you passed.

« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 10:29:03 AM by AE4RV » Logged
N4NYY
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Posts: 4747




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« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2011, 09:30:54 AM »

Damn, Did you record it and can you play it back? I am dying to hear that exchange. Please do not tease us with this !
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VE3CX
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« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2011, 10:02:35 AM »

I am not sure where the idea of what the S-meter reads should be part of the report.  Its Readability, Strength.  From the list, http://www.radioing.com/hamstart/rst.html, 9 is "Extremely strong signals".  No mention of what your S-meter reads.  On 10 meters for example, a person can be perfectly readable, yet not move the S-meter at all.  There is no "5-0" report.  RS(T) is rather subjective - in the eye (or ear) of the sender.

FWIW - this part of the exchange is generally considered a preamble in a contest setting.  Think of it as "exchange will follow".  Anything other than 59(9) is unexpected.

I would also add - I would *not* consider a person a lid for giving something other than 59(9).  A lid is a "poor operator".  Giving an exchange of other than 5-9 might make him a bit green, or a newbie (yes - we have ALL been there), but definitely not a lid.

Hope everyone had fun with the great opening on 10 last weekend.

Tom - VE3CX

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N3QE
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« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2011, 12:45:29 PM »

There are several well-known (not the rarest DXCC but also far from common) DX ops that either give all reports as 579, or give honest signal reports.
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N4KC
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« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2011, 12:55:32 PM »

I'm with Tom.  A contest is no place for a "real" signal report.  I, too, have wondered when a numerical report began to equate to an S-meter reading.  I still hear stations saying, "Yes, you are 5-by-9 plus 20."  OK, maybe the station really is 5-9, and really is reading 20 dB over S9 on the S-meter, but the two...as Tom notes...does not necessarily have anything to do with each other.

Don't even get me started on CW RST.  How many of you could tell me what the 1 through 9 for the last digit in RST reports stands for?

73,

Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com
http://n4kc.blogspot.com
 
 
 
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KE4JOY
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« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2011, 01:06:27 PM »

I'm with Tom.  A contest is no place for a "real" signal report.  I, too, have wondered when a numerical report began to equate to an S-meter reading.  I still hear stations saying, "Yes, you are 5-by-9 plus 20."  OK, maybe the station really is 5-9, and really is reading 20 dB over S9 on the S-meter, but the two...as Tom notes...does not necessarily have anything to do with each other.

Don't even get me started on CW RST.  How many of you could tell me what the 1 through 9 for the last digit in RST reports stands for?

73,

Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com
http://n4kc.blogspot.com
 
 
 

Tone.. but I think you could get a 599 report out of a spark gap generator these days  Grin
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N4NYY
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« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2011, 02:38:38 PM »

I got a 3-3 report once! LOL
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N4KC
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« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2011, 02:43:15 PM »

True about the spark gap!  But I meant the actual numbers 1 through 9.  I know I couldn't tell you what they were without reference, and I admit I have given some pretty janky CW sigs a "599.".  Even then, how many can tell the different between "60 cycle AC or less, very rough and broad" and "Filtered rectified AC but strongly ripple-modulated?"  N4NYY, I probably gave you "59"...if I needed your grid square!

Just for reference, the "T" in RST is supposed to be:

1              Sixty cycle a.c or less, very rough and broad.

2              Very rough a.c., very harsh and broad.

3              Rough a.c. tone, rectified but not filtered.

4              Rough note, some trace of filtering.

5              Filtered rectified a.c. but strongly ripple-modulated.

6              Filtered tone, definite trace of ripple modulation.

7              Near pure tone, trace of ripple modulation.

8              Near perfect tone, slight trace of modulation.

9              Perfect tone, no trace of ripple or modulation of any kind.

Don N4KC
www.n4kc.com
www.donkeith.com
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K0IZ
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Posts: 737




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« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2011, 03:03:13 PM »

Most of the contest logging programs will automatically load 599 or 59 into log.  Anything else requires the logger to edit that entry.  No serious contester wants to take the time to do that.
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N3QE
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Posts: 2157




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« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2011, 05:47:24 AM »

Most of the contest logging programs will automatically load 599 or 59 into log.  Anything else requires the logger to edit that entry.  No serious contester wants to take the time to do that.
A lot of contest programs automatically pre-fill other fields based on information from previous QSO's or even on information downloaded from the Internet. Being too lazy to update any pre-filled exchange field with actual exchange info isn't by any means "cheating", it's just lazy, because every discrepancy will be assessed as a busted exchange and (depending on the contest) you'll get penalties too.

I use N2MM and updating a pre-filled field (including changing either side's report from the "599" default), is literally just a couple keystrokes.
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WG7X
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Posts: 350




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« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2011, 07:36:00 AM »

Because lying doesn't come easy to me I like to just report the signal I see on the meter.

Lying? Come on dude, there's a world of difference between a contest exchange and lying. To the casual observer, it would seem that you have an axe to grind and it's not about "lying"

Quote
I caused one eastern european station some consternation on 15 meters over the weekend by giving him a 5-3 report after he gave me a 5-9.  He was perfect copy.

If he was perfect copy then, by definition he was S-9. You're splitting some very fine hairs here.

Quote
He asked me what receiver I was running (7600) and then suggested I send it in to get fixed.

... and then you come here to stir up more folks. Making yourself a problem to one station wasn't enough?

Since the ARRL contest last week-end, there has been a flurry of posts like yours, here and in other places. The bottom line here on all these posts is that the author seems to want to claim some sort of moral high ground by complaining about imagined problems with signal reports.

In a contest, a signal report is simply a preamble to the real exchange. IOW it serves to get the other station ready to hear the real exchange, which in the case of the ARRL test was simply our state or in the case of the DX the power level. I've heard folks doing the "Please copy" routine too. That surely takes more time than "59 WA".

It has nothing to do with the actual "meter" reading. In some contests the signal report is not given, because it makes no difference.

Look, if you want to participate in a contest, do so and follow the contest rules. Do as the others in the contest are doing. In the middle of a contest is not the time or place to go on a crusade. Doing so simply makes you, the only guy in the crusade, look like a fool.

Coming to a ham radio website to further the crusade will only solidify the foolish label.

Contests are here to stay, they have been a part of ham radio since its inception. If you really have an axe to grind, take it to the contest sponsor.

Good luck with that, and in the meantime you're "5X9 WA!"

73 Gary
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N4RSS
Member

Posts: 258




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« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2011, 08:27:36 AM »

Because lying doesn't come easy to me I like to just report the signal I see on the meter.

Lying? Come on dude, there's a world of difference between a contest exchange and lying. To the casual observer, it would seem that you have an axe to grind and it's not about "lying"

Quote
I caused one eastern european station some consternation on 15 meters over the weekend by giving him a 5-3 report after he gave me a 5-9.  He was perfect copy.

If he was perfect copy then, by definition he was S-9. You're splitting some very fine hairs here.

Quote
He asked me what receiver I was running (7600) and then suggested I send it in to get fixed.

... and then you come here to stir up more folks. Making yourself a problem to one station wasn't enough?

Since the ARRL contest last week-end, there has been a flurry of posts like yours, here and in other places. The bottom line here on all these posts is that the author seems to want to claim some sort of moral high ground by complaining about imagined problems with signal reports.

In a contest, a signal report is simply a preamble to the real exchange. IOW it serves to get the other station ready to hear the real exchange, which in the case of the ARRL test was simply our state or in the case of the DX the power level. I've heard folks doing the "Please copy" routine too. That surely takes more time than "59 WA".

It has nothing to do with the actual "meter" reading. In some contests the signal report is not given, because it makes no difference.

Look, if you want to participate in a contest, do so and follow the contest rules. Do as the others in the contest are doing. In the middle of a contest is not the time or place to go on a crusade. Doing so simply makes you, the only guy in the crusade, look like a fool.

Coming to a ham radio website to further the crusade will only solidify the foolish label.

Contests are here to stay, they have been a part of ham radio since its inception. If you really have an axe to grind, take it to the contest sponsor.

Good luck with that, and in the meantime you're "5X9 WA!"

73 Gary

I thought a signal report WAS part of the exchange and should be reported accurately, yes.  If that's incorrect then I stand corrected.  I'm aware that the history of signal strength wasn't predicated on an S meter, but that seems to have gone by the wayside and I'm with the majority on the current practice.

Stirring the pot a little sure, what of it ?

Doing as others do in the contest...well probably want to do a bit better than that given some of the behaviors

Edit: I just checked the rules for the contest and it included a signal report exchange, so the signal report is an integral part of the exchange.
  I also checked the signal strength guide on ARRL and I think S3, defined as a "weak signal" corresponds reasonably well to an S meter reading of 3, especially given that there were much stronger signals than his who happened to be above 9 on the S meter.  There is no stipulation that one can't use the S meter as a proxy for signal strength, it's just a tool.

Perfect copy is readability "5", not signal strength.  I have had many 100% copy signals on the higher bands where the signal strength was nonexistant.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 09:03:10 AM by N4RSS » Logged
AE4RV
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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2011, 09:36:02 AM »

No one said that it is technically incorrect to give an 'honest' signal report, it just isn't done for reasons repeated several times above. Below I will sum up how I felt about it when I started dabbling in contests.

Three stages of learning the truth about contest signal reports:

1. Confusion: Everyone is a 59? That's not how it's supposed to work!

2. Grief: But I like honest signal reports, I want to know how I'm getting out!

3. Acceptance: Oh well, It's like that, and that's the way it is.

(Apologies to Run DMC).

73

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