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Author Topic: Why is Dayton in Dayton?  (Read 22142 times)
W8JX
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« Reply #45 on: May 28, 2011, 05:11:18 AM »

Even if you were to remotely consider such a event, it would need to be kinda centrally located and that would not be Florida by any stretch.
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WA8KIW
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« Reply #46 on: May 28, 2011, 06:49:16 AM »

Again, where is the ham population center of the US and Canada located?  A location near that point could have a chance at success.

I've been to the Orlando show more than once and have not been impressed even when the weather was decent.  Although the location is OK for a regional event, besides not being centrally located, I don't think it could handle a Dayton sized venue by any means. 

How about looking at Wright State and the Nutter Center area?  Or perhaps something could be worked out at Wright-Pat?  Hangers for exhibits and unused runways for parking and flea market!
It appears the government could use the money.

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K9MHZ
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« Reply #47 on: May 28, 2011, 10:24:19 AM »

That's not a good idea at all.  Dayton is located within an hour's flying time of something like 75% of the population of the United States...that's why FedEx, UPS, and others have located large facilities in the region.  That also translates into a corresponding equidistant travel by car to most hams in the U.S.  Also, the assertion that it's "shrinking" isn't factual, either.  Dayton was packed this year.  The issue it to get out of Hara Arena, period.  I don't think DARA even realizes how much legal exposure they're subjecting themselves to, after something like raw sewage comes spewing out like a river into public areas. People can die from exposure to the e-coli in sewage.  If this isn't a wakeup call to DARA, then nothing will be.

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K9MHZ
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« Reply #48 on: May 28, 2011, 10:27:03 AM »

Oops, sorry KIW....I was responding to KD9MJR's post. 
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KC8ZEV
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« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2011, 07:18:38 PM »

Been going to Dayton for Hamvention for many, many years. DARA....you cannot run and hide from this years sewage disaster!!! Absolutely no excuse for this. A MAJOR health hazard to say the least. HARA needed taken down years ago....it is obvious that the family has not put much money in the place for years. So many other options are available and must be explored. SEAPAC and HAMCOM are looking better and better. I hope the sewage laden flea market exhibitors at least got their money back. The parking lot pavement is so bad, it looks as though it has been bombed. Ceiling tiles missing, water damage and terrible bathroom facilities(when they were working) just to mention a few of the venue's gems. For the biggest gathering of Hams in the world,the group as a whole, deserves a world class facility and for the public image that comes along with it. DARA......WAKE UP!!! THE DAMAGE IS DONE!! PLEASE MOVE HAMVENTION TO A REAL VENUE!!! If DARA won't do the right thing, I hope ARRL and the powers to be will step in and save us from going home covered in raw sewage. I doubt there were many dumpster divers on Sunday afternoon this year...........that stuff had been closed off by a HAZMAT team.

73

KC8ZEV

Steve
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K9MHZ
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« Reply #50 on: May 31, 2011, 07:44:03 AM »

For the biggest gathering of Hams in the world,the group as a whole, deserves a world class facility and for the public image that comes along with it.


Amen.
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W6ZKH
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« Reply #51 on: May 31, 2011, 07:37:37 PM »

After reading all the posts, I think it is pretty certain I wont be attending Dayton next year for the first time after 57 years of hamdom...  Until someone can come with an event as large, in better facilities and on-site boondocking RV parking, I think my trip to Ham-Mecca will be curtailed.

John W6ZKH
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AE4RV
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« Reply #52 on: June 01, 2011, 12:09:15 PM »

Louisville, KY has great facilities, location and three interstates (64, 65, 71). Come early for the Kentucky Derby.
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KR4BD
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« Reply #53 on: June 01, 2011, 05:11:46 PM »

AE4RV...

I'm not so sure about Louisville.  The only facility large enough to hold it in one location would be the state fairgrounds.  You'll need plenty of space for the flea market, parking, indoor exhibits, etc.  I once regularly attended the Louisville hamfest and have seen it dwindle in size, location and attendance in the last 10-15 years.  30 years ago, it was a much larger event. 

You have to ask yourself...  Would there be enough local VOLUNTEERS (hundreds needed) to put on a show as large as Dayton?  It is a year-round effort.  Would there been enough money available to back that effort in the event of low attendance due to weather or other unforeseen problems?  Would a local group be willing to lose money for several years before turning the corner?

Dayton is also in a good centrally located area.  Two of the most heavily traveled interstates cross there (I-70 and I-75).

The Dayton folks have been successfully running the HAMvention for decades always mindful of the extensive work involved and financial resources needed to pull it off.  Back in the 1970's, I lived in the Dayton area and was among the hundreds of volunteers helping to make it a GREAT event for those attending.  Putting on a MAJOR show like Dayton takes a lot of hard work, organization, marketing, PR, advertising, MONEY, etc.

Yes...There are SEVERE problems with the location of the Dayton HAMvention and I am sure the DARA members would like to change to a better facility, but based on my knowledge of the Dayton area, there is nothing available at this time that could handle such a large gathering.

Even with all the problems of HARA Arena, I would not miss attending the HAMvention.

Tom, KR4BD (ex-WB8VMI)
Lexington, KY
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W8JX
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« Reply #54 on: June 01, 2011, 06:52:18 PM »


Yes...There are SEVERE problems with the location of the Dayton HAMvention and I am sure the DARA members would like to change to a better facility, but based on my knowledge of the Dayton area, there is nothing available at this time that could handle such a large gathering.


Well the way I see it DARA has a choice here move it to another proper facility or town like Columbus or sit back and weight until some other event in another town over takes DARA for premiere show. I know in the past that DARA was always foolish enough to still sign 5 year contracts with HARA for shows and given that HARA has had little incentive to improve anything. Last I looked this is 2011 and HARA is kinda stuck in 70's. I wonder if DARA got a refund on its 100k plus rental few with sewage problems. Likely not and maybe they even got blamed for it and had to pay repair bill.
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KR4BD
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« Reply #55 on: June 01, 2011, 08:41:25 PM »

W8JX

Please understand, I am NOT defending DARA.  Be aware, however, that MAJOR conventions often MUST reserve dates and facilities MANY YEARS in advance.  I know it is hard to believe, but HARA Arena is still heavily used in the Dayton area for concerts, gun shows, train shows, hockey and other events.  Signing a 5 year contract may have been a prudent and necessary move by DARA to be sure they had dates reserved.  And do you know for sure that HARA Arena has NOT made some concessions for the mess at this year's HAMvention? 

It would be nice if someone on the DARA inside could fill in the gaps here. 
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W8JX
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« Reply #56 on: June 01, 2011, 10:18:23 PM »

I do know that HARA made DARA pay a few 100K to repair parking lot in late 90's claiming that bus traffic damaged it (like that is only buses it sees). Make no mistake, HARA is no big booming enterprise and survives only because it is only place in area for some events but is empty a lot. After getting stiffed for parking lot repair DARA should have left HARA even if they had to setup tents for a year or two somewhere. Maybe some like reliving 70's and 80's at a 2011 event and skating across wet bathroom floors that are wet from who knows what even when sewage is working. Not me. I go because it is 20 miles away but I would not travel cross country to go to it. They do no even have viable A/C in several building. This is why is say "70's"
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HAMFESTS
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« Reply #57 on: June 02, 2011, 01:40:53 PM »

It's a shame that such a large and great event is basically held hostage to an arena because there isn't anything viable close by, but I think DARA should give it a try. (and they have tried I believe)

It's too bad that some enterprising person or investors can't take one of those under used or  vacant shopping malls near Dayton and transform it into a convention center. I realize that a newer more modern facility would demand more rent for such an event and I wonder if hams would pay $5 more per ticket to attend at a newer place.

I've been to many hamfests and the best are ones that offer a clean modern inside facility and at least some covering of the outside flea market. Some fairgrounds offer this except that the buildings are usually outdated. But none can handle the amount of indoor vendors that Hara does.

I do agree with all the responses though that DARA must seriously look into another venue again. It's a shame that Cinncinati, Cleveland or some other central state near Dayton doesn't have a small or large domed stadium. Sometimes I wonder what Hamvention would look like in an indoor arena football stadium or maybe in the St Louis Rams Dome. I figure a place like that where 60-80,000 watch a game could handle 20-30,000 people easy and have the whole fest on the field, one level, but the renting of a place like that might cost too much. Although there would be lots of food vendors. Weather would never be a problem, rain or shine.

(we can dream)

I realize too that the venue has to be close to Dayton because of the tremendous amount of volunteers that live nearby. They can't all travel too far from where they live to volunteer for an event this size. Maybe bringing in more clubs to help could be an option, if it's not in Dayton?

I know there is a solution out there somewhere. I believe that the hams voicing their opinion do so because they want the best event for such a great hobby they love. I too remember when the fleamarket was full and the inside had every commercial vendor.

We all love Dayton but we don't ever want to see it go downhill and that's what people are seeing.

I also believe that DARA has tried  but due to so many factors (some obvious and others not) and the work that goes into putting on an event this size limits their choices.

I do want to thank DARA for all the hard work they do to hold Hamvention each year.

73 and hoping for something better to happen for Hamvention and DARA




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K9MHZ
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« Reply #58 on: June 02, 2011, 03:24:32 PM »

Amen, again.

I'm not a lawyer, but do know that a lot of Europe does not distinguish civil and criminal law as clearly as the U.S. does.  Recent case.....the Air France Airbus that crashed into the Atlantic after their pitot tubes iced up near a thunderstorm.  Apparently, Air France knew of the icing problem with that brand of pitot tube (I think British made), but refused to replace them with an American made brand that was far less prone to icing.  Then the crash happened and the investigation began.  Recently, some high level Air France execs are being indicted over there.

If someone gets sick at HARA from oh, ecoli maybe, and HARA/DARA had a history of a problem in this area, they could get sued massively as a minimum.  Someone at DARA needs to make the tough call and break out of this paradigm of using that dump year after year.

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W8JX
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« Reply #59 on: June 02, 2011, 05:02:55 PM »


 Apparently, Air France knew of the icing problem with that brand of pitot tube (I think British made), but refused to replace them with an American made brand that was far less prone to icing. 


Not exactly. Granted there was a problem with pitot tube is severe icing not normal icing. This has happened before but is of short duration (lost of air speed data was for less than one minute with flight that crashed) Pilots are trained to maintain power and attitude until problem clears. What happened here is copliot panicked and pulled plane into a nose up into a steep climb and stalled it at 38k feet. Throughout the complete free fall to crash, they keep trying to keep nose up and maintained stall. Had they lowered nose and regained airspeed plane would have recovered. This was a case where copilots did not know how to fly airplane it seems without autopilot and auto throttle. It seems there was two co-pilots and one chief pilot. The chief pilot had just be relieved but a backup copilot and had gone to take a break 10 minutes before the stall and when he was recalled and got back it was too late.



If someone gets sick at HARA from oh, ecoli maybe, and HARA/DARA had a history of a problem in this area, they could get sued massively as a minimum.  Someone at DARA needs to make the tough call and break out of this paradigm of using that dump year after year.


I agree that DARA needs to belly up to bar and do something but they seem stuck in mud here. About 60 miles away is Oho State Fair grounds with plenty of parking and indoor facilities that are air conditioned and have proper restrooms too. BTW, DARA kinda got sued by HARA over parking lot and still went back again and again.
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