Call Search
     

New to Ham Radio?
My Profile

Community
Articles
Forums
News
Reviews
Friends Remembered
Strays
Survey Question

Operating
Contesting
DX Cluster Spots
Propagation

Resources
Calendar
Classifieds
Ham Exams
Ham Links
List Archives
News Articles
Product Reviews
QSL Managers

Site Info
eHam Help (FAQ)
Support the site
The eHam Team
Advertising Info
Vision Statement
About eHam.net

   Home   Help Search  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: 13.8 volts from a new Volks Wagon  (Read 3699 times)
G7SQL
Member

Posts: 1




Ignore
« on: July 06, 2011, 01:10:00 PM »

Anyone have any ideas on how to solve this issue.

I have taken delivery of a 2011 VW passat. The new blue motion sport.

It has an energy recovery system that charges the battery when you coast along. in gear but no throttle.
The problem is that I run an Icon ic7000 and we all know they guzzle amps. The radio is directly wired to the battery but the system whilst I am driving only seems to get dead 12 volts (If I'm lucky) from the battery. However, when I take my foot off and the recovery system cuts in I get full voltage at 13.8 volts.
This is great when coasting but I only get less than half power from the radio when my foot is on the go pedal.
Out of gear and idling I get 11.5 to 12 volts depending on if I have anything else turned on.

Does anyone know of any way I can wire this to get the full 13.8 volts?
Logged
K0BG
Member

Posts: 9868


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2011, 02:21:15 PM »

You can't! Just about everything shuts down in the system, including the alternator. It is, after all, the alternator providing the power. When it shuts down, the SLI battery quickly discharges down to its nominal idle voltage (12.2 to 12.4 depending on the battery). This can go lower if the accessary load is high (AC on, headlights, etc.).

Under full load, the voltage drop across the stock power cable, is just under .5 volts. What it actually is at the back of the radio during coast, depends on a lot of factors not in evidence. All this said.... About the only way you can be assured of a full ≈13.8 vdc with the VW system, is to use a battery booster. Several folks make these units, including MFJ.

By the way, I wouldn't say the IC-7000 "guzzles amps", anymore than any other 100 watt output mobile transceiver.

PS: VW is not the only marque with this same problem. It seems, after all, that going mobile is getting tougher all the time.

PSS: After doing a little research, I find that the Blue Motion does indeed shut the engine down. Not idled mind you, but clear off! This is why the battery voltage drops to its float level as I originally explained.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2011, 03:05:33 PM by K0BG » Logged

KB1LKR
Member

Posts: 1898




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2011, 07:03:12 PM »

Use a DC/DC converter for 11-13VDC in and 14VDC out? Wouldn't be cheap, but you should be able to tolerate the efficiency loss thru one.

Thoughts? Alan?
Logged
N6AJR
Member

Posts: 9908




Ignore
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2011, 05:06:00 PM »

either buy a ford:) or think about a second battery, (deep cycle type) and use a constant duty solinoid ( like a ford starter realy but made to stay on for hours.the ford relay burns up in smoke after about 20 minutes , don't ask how I know:)) )  Run the actuattor to a 12v "key on" point and it will charge the extra battery when running and isolate it when the key is off.
Logged
K0BG
Member

Posts: 9868


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2011, 04:24:03 AM »

You weren't reading Tom (aka Catfish). A second battery would do exactly the same thing. This issue is, the engine shuts down. When it does, no alternator output. No alternator output equals battery resting voltage of 12.2 or so, and less if there is an accessary load.
Logged

K5LXP
Member

Posts: 4493


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2011, 08:09:15 AM »

So does the car deal with the voltage excursions in some way, or are the lights, fan and other accessories also affected?


Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM

Logged
K0BG
Member

Posts: 9868


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2011, 03:46:44 PM »

Mark, it is all hybrids, even semi ones like the VW. Anything powered by the SLI is affected. Worse, most of the SLIs (if we can call them that) in these vehicles, are minuscule because the SLI doesn't do the restarting; the hybrid battery does. You of all people understand the issues.

On a side light...

I received an e-mail from a new amateur in LA, who is trying to install an HF radio in a Chevy Volt. Now that is going to be very interesting!
Logged

K1CJS
Member

Posts: 6034




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2011, 05:04:29 AM »

Just where is he going to put the radio body?  On a luggage rack on top of the body?   Grin
Logged
K5LXP
Member

Posts: 4493


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2011, 07:34:21 AM »

most of the SLIs (if we can call them that) in these vehicles, are minuscule because the SLI doesn't do the restarting;

So then technically it's not an SLI, it's an "LI"?  Or maybe just an "L"?  :-)

I would think that this issue would have to be isolated from the driver, otherwise the customer backlash would be overwhelming.  So somehow, even though it's happening, must not be noticeable to the typical owner.  The direct answer is to use a boost converter, or a radio that isn't sensitive to lower voltages (not sure of many that are).


Quote
I received an e-mail from a new amateur in LA, who is trying to install an HF radio in a Chevy Volt. Now that is going to be very interesting!

The Volt of course only runs the ICE when the traction pack reaches a certain depth of discharge, so there has to be a converter operating the accessories.  How "clean" it is from an EMI standpoint remains to be seen.  Alan, you're going to have to expand the hybrid section of your site to include hybrid and BEV shielding and EMI measures.  Could make spark plug and fuel pump noise look like a walk in the park.


Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM



Logged
K0BG
Member

Posts: 9868


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2011, 12:16:16 PM »

I agree. I haven't done so, and in fact I was sort of waiting for John to write something up. I do have bits, and pieces from him, so I'll look at it.

The Volt uses a switching PS to run the accessories off the HV battery. The range the Volt is getting under full electric, is about half of what GM speaks about in their ads (≈20 vs. ≈40). The dealer here hasn't gotten one yet, but when they do I'm going to park out front when they take a test ride. I'll bet you can hear it as well as a Prius.
Logged

KD5SCA
Member

Posts: 5




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2011, 01:18:54 PM »

Could you use a capacitor or series of capacitors like they use for car sterreo amplifiers? Wouldn't that even out the voltage?
Logged
K0BG
Member

Posts: 9868


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2011, 01:33:16 PM »

Well, not really. What you have to remember is, the battery (or caps) is only a temporary reservoir, and something must charge it back up. That is typically the alternator, but in at least one case, there is a voltage regulator off the main propulsion battery that runs the accessories. And that's about all it will run. Not to worry, though, as most hybrids, are so electrically noisy, you can't operate HF amateur radio from them in the first place.

I do have one question, and being rhetorical, it needed be answer. Where do the folks who by plug ins, think the power comes from?
Logged

KJ4MKQ
Member

Posts: 3




Ignore
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2011, 04:49:39 PM »

I too have a Passat. German engineers I believe must ponder ways to make the complicated more complicated, the easy difficult and the hard near impossible.
Logged
KD4LLA
Member

Posts: 459




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2011, 12:13:28 PM »

I do have one question, and being rhetorical, it needed be answer. Where do the folks who by plug ins, think the power comes from?
The outlet in their garage... ha ha ha!  Good one Alan!
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!