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Author Topic: Can we stop bashing NO-CODE hams!  (Read 5274 times)
KC2VDM
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Posts: 145




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« on: August 08, 2011, 09:11:58 PM »

To be honest and quick to the point, I'm tired of hearing new licensees being bashed and mocked by older hams. All the time I hear in forums and comments "It must be because of those NO-CODE hams", or "Well, thanks to all those NO-CODE hams..."

It annoys me how some (not all, but some) of older hams shun or bash no-code hams today. They want to see no-code hams GONE! How does it even relate? It's a valuable skill, but how does it judge intelligence?

What I don't understand, is why don't the older, experienced hams TEACH the newer hams about their mistakes? Instead of chasing them off the air!

Everyone here was a new ham at some point in their lives. Remember that.
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KE7IZL
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Posts: 47




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« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2011, 11:10:48 PM »

Probably being an "older ham" is like an exclusive club. They think they are better than everyone else, simply because they DO know Morse code. They think that "being better than others" is a reason in and of itself to be rude to those "others". While it doesn't seem to be good ham radio etiquette to treat others that way, I think bullies are just a fact of life. Bullies will always exist (in every walk of life, every job, every hobby, every school), even though they shouldn't.
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5811




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« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2011, 04:05:55 AM »

It's more the mistaken belief that morse code 'filters out' or stops the undesirable element from getting a ham license.  Most of the time, those older hams simply want the newbies to have to go through what they went through--being forced to learn morse code--with the thought that anyone who does not is not a 'real' ham. 

The only 'real' ham comes from a slaughtered pig!
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AD4U
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Posts: 2150




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« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2011, 05:08:54 AM »

I have been licensed since the late 1960's, and I don't think I feel that way.  Like many I struggled through the code, but with a lot of practice, I learned it and passed the 20 WPM code in the mid 1970's.  If there had been no code in the 1960's, I would have become a ham at least 5 years earlier than I did.  So having to learn the morse code impeded my progress as a ham too.

One issue that I do have is that today anybody can go from not being a ham and knowing basically nothing about ham radio to extra class in a couple of hours in an exam room.  Exiting the exam room with an extra class ticket and not knowing how to make a simple half wave dipole, not knowing how to "feed" that dipole, or not UNDERSTANING ohm's law really concerns me.  That is just how I feel.

Again IMO - in the old days there was a reason why hams started out as a novice class licensee and had to spend some time operating and learning the basics of ham radio before moving up the licensing ladder.

I am not saying "then" is better than "now".  But many of us old timers have a hard time reading posts from extra class hams asking the most basic questions that we feel an extra class ham should know and that a novice class licensee would have  known in the "old days". 

Some habits that we acquired are hard to move past.

Dick  AD4U
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K3GM
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Posts: 1754




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« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2011, 05:32:26 AM »

It's more the mistaken belief that morse code 'filters out' or stops the undesirable element from getting a ham license...........

I agree, there were LIDS before the code elements, but there are lot more since the code elements were eliminated.  Now ANYONE can memorize the answers to the tests and get on the air. But the code element was the final hurdle, or filter as you refer to it.  Whether you used it or not, it was an indicator that you really wanted to get into amateur radio.  Think of your "favorite" LID here on eHam, then picture him faced with even the 5 or 13WPM code element.  He would have given up and stayed on 11 meters.

......... Most of the time, those older hams simply want the newbies to have to go through what they went through--being forced to learn morse code--with the thought that anyone who does not is not a 'real' ham......
Speaking for myself, that couldn't be farther from the truth.  I was recruited from the CB ranks in the late 70's, then I in turn got friends interested in getting their ticket..  Some tried it and when faced with the code element thought is was too much trouble.  Others embraced the code element and continued on.  Those were the people who were really interested in amateur radio. In some way, the code element made us unique; special.  Anyone can pick up a mike.  Few can sit in front of a key.  I would have preferred to see amateur radio die because there were fewer recuits than to see it being eaten from within as it seems to be today.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 05:36:08 AM by K3GM » Logged
W3LK
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Posts: 5644




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« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2011, 07:47:40 AM »

Oh PLEASE!

Not another code-no-code thread. It's a total waste of server space and bandwidth!

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A smoking section in a restaurant makes as much sense as a peeing section in a swimming pool.
K9YLI
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Posts: 846




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« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2011, 07:51:35 AM »

I'm and old tmer. I don't feel   NO-CODE was ever a indication that a ham was not a  'true ham'..   
But like many, i get frustrated when questions come up on the board that  should have been commmon knowledge  for a novice.
 Some like """ I passed my license today, what do i do now??"""
My approach to almost any endeavor would be to learn about it first to see if its what i want to put effort into,  then do the  final thing and take the test.   Would you go out and get a pilots license, only to find out you"re afraid of heights.Huh??   ( I know, not much sensation of height in a plane)

Back in the 50's   would be hams  drooled over  catalogs, read up  on every aspect,   knew all the  radio specs, antenna uses , etc.
then they got licnesed and by the time it came in the mail, they knew exactly  what  radio to buy or  builld, and how to use it.
   Now its  "" gee  ham radio!!  I think I'll go take the test and then figure out what it's all about.""

An extra class license used to be  approximately  equivilent to a    'second phone'
...    which I started with.  That was  120 lessons, at about 15 hours a piece  to pass second phone at the FCC.


but then maybe we need 12 things to grouse about, one for each month so  no-code can be  reserved  for  May...
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AK7V
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Posts: 244




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« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2011, 01:21:06 PM »

Maybe it's like why hazing is sometimes part of joining a fraternity.  Shared struggle brings people together.
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K7KBN
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Posts: 2754




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« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2011, 01:21:42 PM »

I am not saying "then" is better than "now".  But many of us old timers have a hard time reading posts from extra class hams asking the most basic questions that we feel an extra class ham should know and that a novice class licensee would have  known in the "old days". 
Some habits that we acquired are hard to move past.
Dick  AD4U

Exactly.  And when such a question comes from the holder of a 1X2, or 2X1 call -- or, increasingly, 1X3 calls -- I have to figure that if he's so keen to disguise himself as an experienced ham, he should learn by experience, the way we genuine old-timers did.
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
KE3WD
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Posts: 5694




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« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2011, 02:03:32 PM »

Before the code-no code thing came around, the term used was, "Appliance Operator". 


73
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KA3NXN
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Posts: 106


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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2011, 04:53:39 AM »

Aren't all hams that are licensed now-a-days no code hams no matter what class license they hold? Take it from I guess what would be considered an old timer, even though I'm only 46, but have been licensed for almost 30 years. The real old timers will eventually die off and the bashing will be a thing of the passed. Just hang in there and don't let it get to you. There are way way too many different things in this hobby that you can do and you can stay away from the bashers.  This can be a very clique oriented hobby and unfortunately if you are different than any of the closed minded others than you are not as good as them. WRONG!!!!!
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K9YLI
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Posts: 846




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« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2011, 06:49:41 AM »

NXN   ..  you have it mostly right..

how ever,   'when all the old timers die off........."

who is going to be the  elmers   if  everyone is an appliance operator.

who is going to be technical enough to  know if something is working correctly  or not.

the so-called  new extras,  wont be answering questions of technical origin, there wont be any 'technical' hams left..

maybe by then  equipment will be cheap enough  that you just throw it away  if it seems to not work..

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WU0R
Member

Posts: 76




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« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2011, 08:15:13 AM »

Smells like a troll to me....

Honestly, most of the whining and complaints come from folks that have a false perception of reality.  Haven't noticed it on the air or on forums until someone throws out a troll post.

GL
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K1CJS
Member

Posts: 5811




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« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2011, 08:40:15 AM »

....One issue that I do have is that today anybody can go from not being a ham and knowing basically nothing about ham radio to extra class in a couple of hours in an exam room.  Exiting the exam room with an extra class ticket and not knowing how to make a simple half wave dipole, not knowing how to "feed" that dipole, or not UNDERSTANING ohm's law really concerns me.  That is just how I feel.

Again IMO - in the old days there was a reason why hams started out as a novice class licensee and had to spend some time operating and learning the basics of ham radio before moving up the licensing ladder.

I am not saying "then" is better than "now".  But many of us old timers have a hard time reading posts from extra class hams asking the most basic questions that we feel an extra class ham should know and that a novice class licensee would have  known in the "old days".... 

Now THAT is a sentiment I can agree with.  One ham I know is an extra class and got his ticket in just that way.  Morse code came naturally to him probably because of his time in the service.  He memorized the question pools and passed his extra--although not in one day.

At a field day site a few years ago, he 'tried' to help out, and promptly blew the power feeds to my HF rig.  When I asked him why he plugged a code key into a power outlet his reply was "Well, what do you want?  The connectors matched."  Luckily the only real damage was a foil trace melted off one of the pc boards and I was able to fix it in the field.

On that one, Dick, I know how you feel--I feel the same way.  I've got a general ticket now and I'll upgrade as soon as I understand the material to pass the extra test--and not before.
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W5DQ
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« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2011, 09:50:08 AM »

I've been licensed over 35 years and I don't feel any anomosity towards new hams. In fact just the opposite. I have Elmered many new hams when asked for help in doing something they did not know how to do.

The one thing that I do see from time to time, especially on eHam.Com, is some upstart know-it-all who thinks just because he/she has a good memory and can recall enough info to pass the series of license test, Tech to Extra in one sitting, act as if they were the first to ever pass an Extra Class test even though they still know nothing about Amatuer Radio. To those I say 'Have fun and don't burn down your house while learning'.

Sure there a bunch of crotchity old farts (I'm getting more like them everyday according to my wife) that believe that if you didn't do the 20WPM code and the old style Q&A tests with circuit design, you are really not a true ham. Even though I was licensed in that era, I feel almost reversed to this. I think the system has done a big disadvantage to the newer hams who are allowed to go nothing to Extra in a Saturday morning. They have the empowerment to do things but most have none of the knowledge to use it correctly. Sort of like giving a drivers license to a teenager who never sat in a car yet alone took any drivers ed classes and then expecting them to learn the rules of the road without making any mistakes. Just not going to happen that way. The old method of a 2 year operational experience window before eligible for the Extra ticket was a good idea in my book.

If is imperative that old timers take the time to pass along what they have learned to the new hams as well as the new hams to be willing to learn and not be critical of old timers attitudes. Somewhere along the way, the two sides should learn to accept one another as equals. Wisdom comes with experience and age and it is a shame for old timers not to share that with others. I still learn stuff all the time even after 35 years of being a ham. I know I am willing to help when called upon.

Gene W5DQ
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
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