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Author Topic: 35 mile problem  (Read 13936 times)
W8JX
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« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2011, 07:21:33 PM »

Quote
Solution is pretty simple. At one in put a Hustler G6 or G7 at 40 to 50 feet. A other end use s small cheap Yagi st 20 feet and you will be able to chat no sweat on 2m FM

Why use an omni-directional vertical on the one end? Wouldn't Yagi's on both ends be better?

Yes you could use Yagis at both ends but the G6 or G7 at 50 feet would be the beacon to zero other station in on as it will always be aimed correctly so to speak and would let you work HT simplex at time when closer on high up somewhere else without having to aim beam again. I have a G7 that is 40 feet up at its base and feed with about 85 feet of RG 213. It has been up there for close to 20 years and has been trouble free and survived severe icing more than once and 80+mph winds on a few occasions. I was just trying to keep it simple and cheap and no need for rotor. Also with a long/tall vertical you can benefit for a larger capture area. As VHF/UHF waves travel thru space there can be holes in coverage and a bigger antenna spans these holes. These "holes" are easy to see/hear at times when you can move a few feet with HT or even a cell phone and see a improvement or total loss of signal. The higher the frequency the sharper and smaller the holes tend to be.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 11:09:19 PM by W8JX » Logged

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K9KJM
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« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2011, 10:14:25 PM »

At only 35 miles there is no reason FM to a small hand held that is connected to a decent outdoor antenna with decent low loss coax should not work out, With no major obstruction between the stations on two meters.

Use good low loss coax like Times LMR400, Keep it as short as possible, Put your antennas up as high as you can get them, And yes, a good directional antenna at each end aimed at the other station Will help.

While SSB IS better, The very slight advantage is not worth the effort. Especially for such a short range link.
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KD8PGB
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« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2011, 04:11:34 AM »


 Thanks guys,  I will be working on this in the next week and will report my findings !
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K1CJS
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« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2011, 04:45:21 AM »

Why use an omni-directional vertical on the one end? Wouldn't Yagi's on both ends be better?

I said what I did because the range really isn't long enough to require yagi antennas at either end.  Also, many people would want a good, omnidirectional 2 meter antenna anyway, but may not have much use for a yagi.

Absolutely go for broke and get the yagi antennas--if you want to.  It just seems like overkill to some of us for the distance involved.

Also, the 50 watt reference I made was a little too narrow.  What I should have said is mobile rigs, not 50 watt radios.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 04:50:03 AM by K1CJS » Logged
KL2TC
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« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2011, 04:12:22 PM »

I regularly (every night on our Geezer Net) speak with a friend up the road 38.9 miles away.  The catch is there is Lazy Mountain between the two of us and I can hit him regularly with my FT-2900 and a Larsen BSA 150C which they call a "radial whip".  It really works great!

73

Al
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ONAIR
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« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2011, 11:25:42 PM »

    You might have better luck on 10 meters SSB.  I believe there are 10 meter SSB handhelds available.
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KD8PGB
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« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2011, 12:57:20 AM »


 yes I was looking at the Super Radio SS-301, AM FM SSB 10M, I am wondering if that would work at 35 miles?

I  have an FT-950 and G5RV at home at 50ft inverted v, which could get out on 10m (please don't flame me on the G5RV, it works for me).

I am thinking my fixed station would require a more NVIS antenna to hit a 35 mile distance?
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AA4PB
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« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2011, 04:48:35 AM »

NVIS doesn't work on 10M. Signals that hit the ionosphere at high angles generally punch right through rather than being refracted back to Earth. On 10M you'll need ground wave (low angle - on the horizon) to work 35 miles. You may have problems with the 35 miles at times when the band is open. I think 2M FM will be more reliable over that distance.

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KF6DBZ
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« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2011, 06:59:21 AM »

I have a Arrow J Pole 2 meter/440 antenna about 20 feet in the air and i use a icom 706 M2g radio. I am in the los angeles area and i can use the Catalina island repeater from my house with no problems. Catalina island is approx 26 miles away from me but it is over water. I however do have Palos Verdes which is approx 1000 feet high sitting right in between me and Catalina island. Like it was said before 50 watts and a good antenna should work fine.
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ONAIR
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« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2011, 08:24:01 PM »


 yes I was looking at the Super Radio SS-301, AM FM SSB 10M, I am wondering if that would work at 35 miles?

I  have an FT-950 and G5RV at home at 50ft inverted v, which could get out on 10m (please don't flame me on the G5RV, it works for me).

I am thinking my fixed station would require a more NVIS antenna to hit a 35 mile distance?
    On a quiet frequency you should be able to reach 35 miles on 10 meter SSB ground wave.  10 meter hams chat with locals that are 35+ miles away all the time.  Even CBers on 11 meters using SSB and 10 watts PEP, are able to do it.
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KD8PGB
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« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2011, 04:09:53 AM »

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On a quiet frequency you should be able to reach 35 miles on 10 meter SSB ground wave.  10 meter hams chat with locals that are 35+ miles away all the time.  Even CBers on 11 meters using SSB and 10 watts PEP, are able to do it.

I was thinking that, however what would be a good a good base antenna configuration for ground wave propagation?
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W8JX
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« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2011, 05:14:32 AM »

A vertical ground plane antenna up 20 feet of more are base. But, when band opens up there will be QRM issues. 2m FM is really best viable solution here and quite doable.
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KD8PGB
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« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2011, 07:56:13 AM »

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A vertical ground plane antenna up 20 feet of more are base. But, when band opens up there will be QRM issues. 2m FM is really best viable solution here and quite doable.

I only wanted to know for my own edification, I am leaning 2m, I am thinking an Arrow 146-4-BP 4 element beam with 100ft LMR400 and mounted roughly at 35ft as I can't go much higher than that.

My 857d puts out 50 watts which should be more than enough power, and we can try it against an HT at the other end, I'm sure he will be able to hear me, but I'm doubtful I will be able to hear the HT with a whip on it, most likely will have to figure out a roof mount antenna for him, or go to a mobile setup in his car.
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W8JX
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« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2011, 12:04:55 PM »

I am leaning 2m, I am thinking an Arrow 146-4-BP 4 element beam with 100ft LMR400 and mounted roughly at 35ft as I can't go much higher than that.

If I may suggest that if you are going to go through the trouble to put up a beam and the extra expense of LMR400 that you put up a bit for than a light duty low gain portable beam. It would offer no gain advantage over a good collinear vertical and likely have less effective gain because the vertical will be 12 to 15 feet higher than beam. If you stay with beam, use a bigger one.
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KD8PGB
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« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2011, 02:59:18 PM »

If I may suggest that if you are going to go through the trouble to put up a beam and the extra expense of LMR400 that you put up a bit for than a light duty low gain portable beam. It would offer no gain advantage over a good collinear vertical and likely have less effective gain because the vertical will be 12 to 15 feet higher than beam. If you stay with beam, use a bigger one.

 Well, I was looking at the gain less than I was looking at focusing direction, and trying to get away with a small beam due to where it has to be mounted. I am assuming a vertical orientation of the beam and really don't have the room to have an 8ft beam, so I was attempting to keep it small. Since it is necessary to mount the antenna about 90ft from the shack, I figured it was best to go with LMR400 to reduce loss on the coax...

 I am wide open to suggestions though!
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