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Author Topic: Greetings and some newbie questions  (Read 3269 times)
LA5RT
Member

Posts: 10




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« on: October 01, 2011, 11:22:15 AM »

Greetings to You all.

Ive returned to hamwork, after 40 years absence. Im trying to establish a radiostation at my house.
I plan to mount a AV-620 at left part of my house, due to powerlines at my right side of house. (kindly see attached pictures).
"my part of the house" however, is at right side of my house.

Due to rocky terrain, I cant use copper rods into soil to establish rf ground. I think the only solution is to use radials at ground.

I plan to lay out radials from  right side of house to establish RF-ground close to position of radiostation.
Will that work if the AV-620 vertical antenna (and later on, posssibly dipoles ) is mounted at left side of house?

Please correct me in the above and the below:

I need to establish 3 diffrent ground topics:

a) Lightning (thunder)
b) RF ground
c) Chassie ground of tranceivers,pa-stage, morse-key ao.).

Im quite confused how I could establish grounds and ligthning protection and the winter is just a week away. Smiley

Im also confused howto make the inlet from outside to inside of house wall.

http://home.broadpark.no/~jeik2/bilder/leftside3.jpg
http://home.broadpark.no/~jeik2/bilder/rightside2.jpg
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 11:28:45 AM by LA5RT » Logged
VA2FSQ
Member

Posts: 511




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« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2011, 03:45:55 PM »

If the AV-620 is anything like a cushcraft R-6000 you do not use radials with it.  The Cushcraft is a "1/2" wave vertical and as such does not require ground radials.  The radials that are there are just for impedance matching to get near 50 ohms.

A ground rod would be good.  If you cannot put a rod directly in the ground you can run one at an angle, or even bury it 3' or so deep.  You would then need to connect this to your antenna and your house ground.

I hope this helps.  There are lots of people more experienced than me here.
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VA2FSQ
LA5RT
Member

Posts: 10




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« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2011, 11:43:00 PM »

If the AV-620 is anything like a cushcraft R-6000 you do not use radials with it.  The Cushcraft is a "1/2" wave vertical and as such does not require ground radials.  The radials that are there are just for impedance matching to get near 50 ohms.

A ground rod would be good.  If you cannot put a rod directly in the ground you can run one at an angle, or even bury it 3' or so deep.  You would then need to connect this to your antenna and your house ground.

I hope this helps.  There are lots of people more experienced than me here.


Thanks for commenting.

From reading in this forum so fare, I'm thinking of:

c) Establishing a ground point in my station by coupling a large cu wire from waterpipe (located 4-5 meter away from station, in basement)  to a copper plate in my station at first floor. From this groundpoint ,couple all chassiegrounds (from transceiver, morsekey and others) in a star groundnetwork.

Do I couple shield of antenna cables to this common ground point too? (I guess so, but guessing could be dangerous, Ive understood in this business).

b) You right. Ive read at this forum and otherplaces that there is no point establish a rf ground for this antennatype. My next antenna will be a vhf 2m vertical and a centerfeed dipole so I guess I wont need any radials outside house. I was thinking of radials to lessen chances of entering an electronic war with my neighbours.

a) I haven't found a solution of lightning yet. I was thinking of establish  a (bad) ground (dry soil area) from a copperrod (3-4meter away from the straight line of antennatop to ground) and thereby grounding the small metal mast supporting the antenna. I wonder if this would decrease possibility of lightning entering my house.?

I will probably contact a local company in how to minimize possibility of lightning.

regards

« Last Edit: October 02, 2011, 01:10:18 AM by LA5RT » Logged
LA1BRA
Member

Posts: 51




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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2011, 07:04:22 AM »

LA5RT de LA1BRA, RF ground is a different issues than station ground. however many station grounds to bond to the same place...I looked on QRZ for your location and no listing found yet..I'm in Tananger, Just out side Stavanger.
We have a big club here full of advice....
anyway, if you are in rocky terrain (this is Norway hihi) your ground radials for the vertical run at angles away from the base of the antenna, generally speaking the more the better. they can lay on top of whatever and will work, much can be said on the subject of how many and such.
Station/safety ground, big YES, bond all electrical equipment to a common ground that is also bonded to the 220 supply to the house.
see QRZ and pick up my direct email, will be glad to tell of my learnings with a vertical on the patio 1.5 meters above sea level..
73 de LA1BRA aka KB5VWZ    and No, I do not snakke Norske...
tom
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VA2FSQ
Member

Posts: 511




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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2011, 08:28:18 AM »

I would mount the antenna where you want, and put a ground plate (not rod) down about 1m deep as shown in your picture.  I would then run the coax and a #6 copper wire (from the mast) to a copper plate mounted on the wall which has a lightning arrestor mounted to it.  I would then run #6 wire or flashing down to the plate.  From the buried plate I would run #6 wire or flashing to another buried plate (or two) spaced about 10-15 feet apart placed near the entrance of the power to the house. From here I would run a number 6 wire to the main panel (through the wall).  Since you will be on the second floor, I am not sure it is a good idea to ground your equipment there and running a bus down outside to the plate is not ideal I think.

Here's some ideas
http://www.w8ji.com/house_ground_layouts.htm
http://www.w8ji.com/second_floor_grounding.htm

Hope that helps.
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VA2FSQ
LA5RT
Member

Posts: 10




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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2011, 08:29:59 AM »

hi there Tom.
Again, thanks for the response.

I found out, by reading here (and there) my antenna don't need those RF radials. But as You say, theres much written about the topic.

QRZ? Is it an internet site? I'm not quite aware of how to enter my position there. Its just a bit south of Ă…rnes, namely Auli.
Edit: I found size and entered my position.


However I'm registerred at NRRL's site at their list of radiohams,with position/address and club is Nedre Romerike gruppe av NRRL.
I thought I was erased from their member list and was surprised that I didn't have to register again, after 30 years away.


Thank You for clearing up whether to connect chassiegrounds of equipment with the ac-power-grounding.

I will look into Stavanger group.

A ground mounted vertical sounds interesting, but my XYL prefers a view to the apple and cherry tree in the spring :-). But mounting antenna above roof made me another concern, the lightning.
With my bad rocky ground I'm starting to be a bit worried. But Ill read on and try to find some knowledge how to lessen that fear. The best Ive come upto present time is grounding the antenna's support walve to a (bad dry) soil.

73's de la5rt,  Jan


LA5RT de LA1BRA, RF ground is a different issues than station ground. however many station grounds to bond to the same place...I looked on QRZ for your location and no listing found yet..I'm in Tananger, Just out side Stavanger.
We have a big club here full of advice....
anyway, if you are in rocky terrain (this is Norway hihi) your ground radials for the vertical run at angles away from the base of the antenna, generally speaking the more the better. they can lay on top of whatever and will work, much can be said on the subject of how many and such.
Station/safety ground, big YES, bond all electrical equipment to a common ground that is also bonded to the 220 supply to the house.
see QRZ and pick up my direct email, will be glad to tell of my learnings with a vertical on the patio 1.5 meters above sea level..
73 de LA1BRA aka KB5VWZ    and No, I do not snakke Norske...
tom

« Last Edit: October 02, 2011, 08:49:36 AM by LA5RT » Logged
LA5RT
Member

Posts: 10




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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2011, 09:01:40 AM »

Greetings and thanks for the informations.

Is there any measurements of the plate to dig in?
The entrance of power of my house is on the attic level at right side of house.I just have 1 floor on my house, the basement is not in use, sorry for my missleading words here.

"From here I would run a number 6 wire to the main panel....."
Are You referring to the 230vac main panel?

regards

I would mount the antenna where you want, and put a ground plate (not rod) down about 1m deep as shown in your picture.  I would then run the coax and a #6 copper wire (from the mast) to a copper plate mounted on the wall which has a lightning arrestor mounted to it.  I would then run #6 wire or flashing down to the plate.  From the buried plate I would run #6 wire or flashing to another buried plate (or two) spaced about 10-15 feet apart placed near the entrance of the power to the house. From here I would run a number 6 wire to the main panel (through the wall).  Since you will be on the second floor, I am not sure it is a good idea to ground your equipment there and running a bus down outside to the plate is not ideal I think.

Here's some ideas
http://www.w8ji.com/house_ground_layouts.htm
http://www.w8ji.com/second_floor_grounding.htm

Hope that helps.
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VA2FSQ
Member

Posts: 511




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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2011, 04:39:15 PM »

Do a search on ground plates to get the size.  I m nor sure what these should be to conform to the local codes.  As to the 230V panel, your ground should be bonded to the ground in the panel.  The panel will have a ground from your power company.  It is probably connected to a cold water pipe somewhere too.  You do not want to attach your ground to the water pipe though! It should be to the ground bus in your panel.  Please try to get help, like an electrician if you do not know what I mean.  Very important!
You an also use rods if you can dig 1 m deep.  You can l lie them on their sides.

Do some searches usin google.  There's lots of good stuff.
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VA2FSQ
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