Faux lightning rods?

[K4FMH]

Hi,

I'm building a new home in an HOA community...yea, I read the CC&Rs and we're still buying/building there, etc...so I'm trying to work with my builder on stealth antenna prospects. First, there are NO trees...the neighborhood is on the shore of a large lake with no trees. I will try a loop hidden under the eaves for sure. I may get a bird-house feeder vertical approved but I'm not sure about any flag poles. While I'll have a large attic space, the insulation system will have foil backing for energy reasons.

Here's my question: has anyone tried to use a "faux" lightning rod system with parts of it as a dipole? It strikes me that this is equivalent to the loop around the eaves (with the metal gutters in the near space). Anyone have any experience with something like this? Thoughts?

[KF7CG]

A couple of questions. Are you using a "tract" builder with a limited choice of floor plans / elevations, have you considered using a full length lightning rod assemble separate from others as a vertical?

If you look to history and the historic homes, you will find that many excellent looking ones had obsertaion rooms at the top of the roof or side towers with observation room above the house. Both execellent places for shortened beams if the walls are kept free of excessive metal. Properly done you have a weather resistant housing for your beam and all its connections and a dry place to do antenna work. Go back to the 1700-1800's look and pull a fast one on them. Build a room for the antenna and put it inside.

Use plasic guttering, if allowed and hide antennas inside the gutters and downspouts.

KF7CG


I am lucky no such restrictions on my lot!

[N3WAK]

Frank--I only have experience with stealth antennas and flagpoles. 

You live in an especially patriotic area--the South.  If you actually do intend to fly the United States flag periodically, such as on national holidays, you should ask the HOA for permission to install a fiberglass flagpole.  I have a 30' tiltover flagpole, and it's great.  If you have any military service, you could even mention that in your letter to the HOA.  You know, something along the lines of, "Flying our national flag would be a great way to show my respect for our country, its first responders, and its fallen servicemembers on days like Veterans' Day and Memorial Day."  Who can say no to an emotional appeal like that?  Surely, there must be some patriot, first responder, servicemember, reservist, older traditional resident, or veteran on your HOA board.  They would probably want to support your request.  Besides, they don't want to have a CNN camera shoved in their face and have some reporter ask them what they have against the display of the US flag.  Not that such would really happen, but they would understand it's possible...and would want to avoid the bad press.  It has happened elsewhere, after all. 

The Mississippi Code might even have a regluation that--regardless of deed restrictions to the contrary--allows for the erection of a flagpole.  Several states have these.  Google is your friend.   

A hollow fiberglass flagpole is a great place to hide a 40 meter vertical, or to use as a support for one end of a #26 stealth wire on a treeless lot. 

Good luck.  73, Tony N3WAK

[K4FMH]

Thanks for all of your comments. I will try for a flagpole...and see what happens. We're building a custom home but it's has a French styling, not historical. I may have room in my garage attic (shaped like a bowling alley) for a dipole or even a hex beam but I do know that the backing on the roof plywood has a metallic coating for energy reasons..so that's not likely to be useful.

My thought was to set up a "faux" set of lightning rods with copper rods hidden in the conduit piece that runs parallel to the roof line and connects the small rods...which in this case would be made of black plastic. I'm unsure whether this would be affected any more than random wires thrown over the roof that we read about. Perhaps someone else has tried this and will weigh in.

The ground-breaking is set to start in a couple of weeks and construction will run through March or April...so I've got some time to work on some things. Fortunately, I've got a building contractor who is happy to work with me.

[K1ZJH]

deleted, misread

[WN9HJW]

Ground rods don't work like this. They must be buried in soil, and properly bonded to the ground rod at the electrical panel.
Regardless, ground rods in themselves offer very little protection for lightning strikes.  Your ham station has to use a
common point ground window where all of the cables entering the shack are protected at an established
"common point grounding window" that is located as close as possible to the electrical panel ground rod.

He was talking about lightning rods, not ground rods.

[ONAIR]

 Being that you are constructing the home new with your own input, how about a sort of bell tower type structure on the top, or an extended "chimney"?  Is there any way you can avoid the entire problem by just buying a vacant piece of land right near, but yet outside of the actual development?

[K1ZJH]

 
He was talking about lightning rods, not ground rods.

You are correct, I deleted my post. Thanks for pointing it out.

Pete

[N4UM]

Since you're building on a lake, you might consider whether you could have a flagpole or windsock out on your dock (if you're building a dock and its not too long a run of coax to your shack.) If you mount a mast on the end of the dock you could run several counterpoise wires beneath the dock.   If you expect to have a boat you could use an outrigger or some sort of mast on the boat as an antenna...perhaps even a sailboat with a 25 or 30 foot mast. 

Even though you say you'll have metallic backing on your roofing material it wouldn't hurt to at least try an attic dipole.  At the very least, have your builder install some PVC pipe from the center of your attic down into your shack location to make this option available for experimenting.  Try to make it as straight a run as possible with no right angle bends. 

Hang in there, don't become discouraged and don't be afraid to experiment like crazy.

[N3WAK]

Frank:  I echo N4UM's comments about (a) experimenting like crazy, and (b) having the builder install some PVC pipe for coax runs.  I've had a dickens of a time getting coax in from outside.  I wish I'd thought about ham radio when my house was being built--PVC tubing from the attic, through the outside wall into the basement, up through the floor from the basement to the shack area.  And, while you're at it, have them install a 240 volt circuit and some extra 120 volt circuits, with a whole lot of extra outlets, to the ham shack. 

73, Tony N3WAK

[K4FMH]

I am indeed having a PVC pipe installed from the attic space to the ground exterior with a T-connector on the outside wall of in my 2nd floor shack in an alcove of my office. Thus, I can run coax and other wiring to the outside and to the attic space and eaves.

The chimney is for a non-vented fireplace insert on the first floor so it will be short, covered with copper flashing, and won't be useful for hiding a vertical. No options for a bell tower and such in the house design. It's a corner lot across the street from the neighborhood marina. IF I can get a flagpole approved (and there is no other one in the neighborhood), I will experiment with a stealth vertical. Not very confident on that. So the location at the dock isn't in the cards nor is a piece of property outside the development. Good thoughts, though.

I'll check with my builder on plastic guttering options. Plus, we do plan on having a pontoon boat...and I've thought about a vertical or screwdriver on it.

I'm open to further ideas! I'm sure that others in my situation will also benefit.

Frank
K4FMH

[WY3X]

Build a room for the antenna and put it inside.

Now THAT'S a novel idea! How can I get my builder to allow me to build a room that
I can fit a 27 foot long 7 element 7M Yagi inside of.... hmmm... must be 85 feet tall too
for maximum efficiency. Guess I'll have to look at "castle" plans!   

Wonder how much it would cost for such a room in the center of a 2500 sq. ft. home?
They'd probably think I wanted a lighthouse! Maybe I could activate during the Lighthouses
On The Air special event!

-WY3X
(All in jest, of course...)

[K4FMH]

KF7CG:

I DO hope that there might be enough turning radius in my attic for a hex beam! Not sure if it will be in an RF cage with the metal foil insulation though!

Frank
K4FMH

[N4UM]

I'd try a simple dipole in the attic before investing in a Hex beam.  Chances are if the dipole won't work, the Hex Beam won't either.

[K4FMH]

N4UM: definitely!