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Author Topic: Interference to Remote Base  (Read 4080 times)
K6ECS
Member

Posts: 27




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« on: June 04, 2014, 09:25:54 AM »

6 months ago we moved our Ecomm repeater to a commercial facility for myriad reasons. Suddenly after 6 months of pleasant operations we're getting a complaint of a guy in another rack stating that we're KILLING! his 2m remote base. His rack consists of (4) GM300-type radios and a controller. He claims to be running a 2m and a 6m remote base.

He is demanding that we move our antenna down the tower since he was there first. Our repeater is a Motorola MSF 5000 and we don't hear a peep out of him as he runs his remote base on 146.520, the national calling frequency. Otherwise known as a sneaky repeater. Southern California is extremely well known for many forms of cross banding, etc. No repeater pairs left? No problem. Just throw up a remote base on any frequency you may find.

The bottom-line question is whether or not 1) coordination of the remote base is required if he wants protection and 2) who is responsible for making modifications.

We can't make any more modification. He can likely add a reject notch filter but I suspect that he will balk at that, and, it will only be of limited use. One cannot expect broadband front0-end radios without helical resonators to perform at the level tat we are at. We don't even here him or see him on the SM. He emailed the site owner threatening to leave. He stated that:

Quote
This looks like a 2meter ham box, he put his antenna at the top right next to mine, now my 2meter remote radio is getting. Killed! it would have been nice is someone told me it was going in there. I was there first, he should move his antenna down the tower. Now i can,t use my 6m or 2m radio, this site is becoming useless to me. anyway to fix this?

'Any way to fix this' is code for "I'm leaving if I don't get my way. I was here first. ne-ner-ne-ner-ne-ner. I also don't see how a MSF 5000 cabinet with Motorola en blazed across it looks like ham gear. LOL. Our antenna is a Station Master and the site owner had his team put it up for us. It is in our contract that we have top-mount position above Verizon.

Suggestions? It seems to me that since he is running what amounts to a repeater as identified in 97.205 and is not coordinated as we are he needs to me adjustments. I like to be a friendly neighbor no matter what and welcome ways to tactfully handle this so everybody wins.
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K1CJS
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Posts: 5885




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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2014, 03:28:16 PM »

No matter what you do, someone is going to be hurt.  It also seem that he is the one who will have to do something since your unit is a coordinated repeater and he is running what amounts to be a private remotely controlled radio. 

One thought does occur, however.  Does he have a rental agreement that guarantees him exclusive 2 meter rights?  Only the site owner can answer that one.

I suggest discussing this with the site owner, since he is the one who erected the antenna for you.  He should have either warned you that another 2 meter unit was there or told him that a 2 meter repeater was going to set up shop there. 

Just be prepared to hear more from this 'remote base' owner, since he is probably going to raise more dust about the situation.  Good luck and 73!
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K6ECS
Member

Posts: 27




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« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2014, 01:21:43 AM »

Thank you for your input!

Actually a remote base is a repeater. It just happens to use frequencies from two bands. If he keys up on 440 it comes out on 146.520 and vice versa. Anything on 146.520 comes down to him on 440. That's a repeater by definition.

My contract states clearly that I have top of tower and as you noted the site owner had his staff erect the antenna for us.

But now the interesting part. The other guy is a sub-contractor for him but claimed to work for him when he made his demands. He wrote:

Quote
***** my name is *** ******* and i work for ***** ***. you have installed a 2 meter repeater at this site that is causing interference to me also on 2 meters. you put your RPT antenna about 3 feet from mine. you can NOT Tx from the top of the tower, you may keep the antenna there but must move your Tx to a spot at 40 feet witch i will clear for you. Please contact me so we can get this done asap.

I have already told him that HE will NOT touch ANY of my equipment.

How anyone that is supposed to be a radio professional could not tell right away that Motorola Radius's and Maxtrac's are not suitable for a repeater site amazes me. At one time we slung together two commercial Vertex mobiles and they made a sweet backup repeater. The only drawback was even though they claimed 80dB adjacent channel rejection they were only 6KHz and 60dB. Without a preselector on the front-end of a radio intended to cover from A-Z he surely cannot expect that his radio's will have selectivity.

He may consider a Angle Linear dual band pass cavity that will give him 90dB of rejection and create a 1MHz window with him at the bottom. DCI will also make him a much broader band pass cavity that still offers 90dB of selectivity and a 1MHz window. $500 either way he goes and no proof that it will work.

No matter what you do, someone is going to be hurt.  It also seem that he is the one who will have to do something since your unit is a coordinated repeater and he is running what amounts to be a private remotely controlled radio. 

One thought does occur, however.  Does he have a rental agreement that guarantees him exclusive 2 meter rights?  Only the site owner can answer that one.

I suggest discussing this with the site owner, since he is the one who erected the antenna for you.  He should have either warned you that another 2 meter unit was there or told him that a 2 meter repeater was going to set up shop there. 

Just be prepared to hear more from this 'remote base' owner, since he is probably going to raise more dust about the situation.  Good luck and 73!
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K1CJS
Member

Posts: 5885




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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2014, 08:21:09 AM »

About the only recourse either of you have is to have the tower owner settle the matter.  I would venture (since you have now clarified that his is a private cross band repeater) that your coordination may give you an advantage, but since he is the tower owner's sub-contractor he has an equal advantage.

If the owner will not settle it, I would look for another site, (as hard as that may be) since there is no telling what the other guy would do (without saying anything to anyone) to your installation.  Even with your contract, you may have a hard time proving any damage or 'adjustments' made were done by him until after the fact--and after possible damage to your equipment.  Good luck and 73.
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WB6DGN
Member

Posts: 590




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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2014, 10:23:20 PM »

Let's see!  The guy had his system already installed on the tower, the system was working correctly, and THEN you come in, install a TRANSMIT antenna within (I think you said) THREE feet of his antenna!  And, strangely enough, you wonder why he's upset???  Did the tower owner know, at the time, that he was installing a TRANSMIT antenna?  Most systems that I've been involved with install the RECEIVE antenna higher than the transmit antenna to give the lower power mobiles and handhelds a slight advantage in coverage.  Is it possible that the tower owner just "assumed" that that is what you were going to do?
I'm not a lawyer and I can't speak to the legal issues, but, in my opinion, I believe that you have a MORAL obligation to move your transmit antenna.  You stated that the other fellow is even nice enough to offer to let you keep your (presumably. receive) antenna where it is! 
Be gracious and meet him half way and put your transmit antenna down where it belongs!
THAT'S MY SUGGESTION!
Tom
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