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Author Topic: If an emeregency occured. Where do we meet/listen  (Read 8720 times)
N6AJR
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« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2007, 03:59:00 PM »

Charles ( Doug) would your mother aprove of you talking like that, I find it childish , juvenile, and some what rude. We are here to help folks , not to call names.

as to the original question. check out your local OES, ACS or what ever they call it where you live, the local sherriff department may have  some info. each area does it differently..
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REMOVED_BY_EHAM_KE4RAZ
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« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2007, 09:26:12 PM »

IMHO

KE4SKY, I was reading this forum as I am considering participating in our local ARES/RACES EM nets and drills. I respectfully submit that if you are the typical state level ARES/RACES member/bigwig, you need to seriously rethink what you are doing and why you are doing it. If my neighbor or family member or someone stumbling down the road needs assistance during a disaster I am going to do what is required to get that help period, with all resources at my disposal, certifications and training be damned. There is a place for all of that for those of you that are into that, but to blow someone off for simply asking what freqs to monitor during an EM situation is at best condescending and at worst stupid. Lighten up. I certianly hope you are not representative of the orginazations as a whole. I would hate to think that during a disaster, I cannot work thru these worthwhile orginizations just because I do not have certification or a title.  

Just one country boy's opinion,

73 de Milo W4MLO
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NX5MK
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Posts: 65




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« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2011, 09:44:26 PM »

I believe the original post never received a complete answer. Searching on eHam, I found similar threads with incomplete answers.

The two HF frequency lists that I found to send out and monitor for a "Mayday" message are:

http://mmsn.org/iaru.html
http://hflink.com/emcomm/

Alternative or additional suggestions by anyone?

vy 73 de Marcus KD0JKM
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LA9XSA
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Posts: 376




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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2011, 12:00:06 AM »

The original post didn't ask for the "mayday" activity centers, he asked for which frequency he should go in a nation-wide emergency situation, such as a sweeping power blackout, and that question has already been answered: It depends on what nets and repeaters are active in his area, and getting in touch with the section emergency coordinator, or checking out which emergency groups are active in the area, is a good idea.

The IARU emergency activity centers are more for day-to-day long-distance emergency and marine traffic. It's more for people in peril on the sea, or far into the desert or jungle somewhere. Those frequencies should probably be kept clear of non-mayday traffic in such a national emergency, since there might still be people in distress at sea who need to get a message out.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2011, 12:01:40 AM by LA9XSA » Logged
LA9XSA
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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2011, 07:59:37 AM »

Think of someone who is very active in local or state RACES is the Lieutenant and the eager, new operator as the private.
No. Think of the police officers, nurses and FEMA officials as the officers, and the people active in RACES as the NCOs and privates in the National Guard. New operators you can think of as the unorganized militia armed with hunting rifles and target pistols. In military terms, the US militia consists of both trained forces (the National Guard and Naval Militia) and untrained forces (any able-bodied man of a certain age).
I'm not saying that the untrained militia is useless, they can be useful in some situations, but in some complex situations they can do more harm than good. (Friendly fire due to confusion, other types of mistakes.)
I would rather have someone with a radio at the hospital emergency room that has participated in drills, but someone there who can at least take orders and pass traffic is better than nothing at all.
I think you went a bit far on that one. An untrained volunteer can be useful in many situations, but an emergency room is about the last place in the world I'd want him in.

If it's a hospital emergency room, I'd rather hand a radio to a member of the hospital staff, like those who usually would have worked the phone when it was functioning. I wouldn't want somebody unknown in there who doesn't know how to behave in that environment. I'm not sure any random untrained ham knows how to pass formal traffic, knows how to safeguard patient privacy, doesn't mess up medical terms, won't collapse under stress, etc. Does he have the necessary background checks to be there? Insurance? A nightmare scenario is something similar to how random Scientologists turned up in at the Port-au-Prince hospital claiming to be health experts and ended up assisting in surgery, some cutting themselves accidentally on the surgical instruments and had to start taking AIDS medication.

Untrained volunteers might be useful. In some situations unaffiliated volunteers might be needed, and called for through broadcast media or ham nets.
"The Methodist Church on 7th Street appeals for forestry service qualified chainsaw operators to come to assist in clearing away trees."
"ARES is appealing for more trained traffic handlers to come to the fire station at 2nd avenue and Bart street"
"Can anyone give me a relay into the section traffic net? My HF antenna is down, and I have priority traffic"
Just showing up on your own accord will usually just get you sent home, or at best put to work doing something else. If you see something like a bus full of school children getting swept away by the flood waters, of course you should call for help with any means necessary, but don't expect to be let into an emergency room or EOC just like that.
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W5DQ
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« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2011, 09:31:52 AM »

...... In military terms, the US militia consists of both trained forces (the National Guard and Naval Militia) and untrained forces (any able-bodied man of a certain age).

..... forestry service qualified chainsaw operators to assist in clearing away trees??

Sorry XSA but 'US militia' Huh Circa 1776!!!  The US hasn't had a organized militia in over 200 years !!!!

Forestry Service Qualifed WHAT??? I think you're trying to apply EU conditions to US scenarios. There are not going to be many 'forestry service qualified chainsaw operators' around in most places ..... any good ol boy with a truck and chain saw will usually be called on to do the job and they will do it without question - especially in the Southern USA!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 09:36:00 AM by W5DQ » Logged

Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
LA9XSA
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« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2011, 10:19:43 AM »

Sorry XSA but 'US militia' Huh Circa 1776!!!  The US hasn't had a organized militia in over 200 years !!!!
Sure you do:
US Code Title 10
Quote
§ 311. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
The US National Guard consists of the state National Guards, when they are turned over from governor's command to the President - if I understand correctly.

Forestry Service Qualifed WHAT??? I think you're trying to apply EU conditions to US scenarios. There are not going to be many 'forestry service qualified chainsaw operators' around in most places ..... any good ol boy with a truck and chain saw will usually be called on to do the job and they will do it without question - especially in the Southern USA!
This is actually based on a real post-hurricane callout from the USA; I think it was in Texas after Ike in 2008. Probably for insurance or safety reasons, the church specified that they wanted volunteers who were certified by the USDA Forest Service as competent chain saw operators. People who would have this card, would be people who have volunteered or been paid to cut down trees on federal land in the past. Volunteers can do stuff like clearing trails, making fire separations, even supervise other volunteers. They say the only Forest Service job a volunteer can't do, is law enforcement - yes the Forest Service has law enforcement officers too.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 10:40:12 AM by LA9XSA » Logged
VK5CQ
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Posts: 115




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« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2011, 01:17:51 AM »


All amateurs who intend to assist with EmCom should affiliate with others in their communities.  They must become part of the organized response, and follow the established emergency communications plan developed by public safety officials and coordinating non-governmental organizations.  

There is no room in EmCom for unaffiliated, untrained, but perhaps well intentioned amateurs who would self-dispatch and freelance on their own, thinking they are going single-handedly to save the world with their radio.

I agree with you, mostly... but - having all that gear setup (both at home & in a mobile / portable context) give one a leg-up over most non-Hams, and they should at least be encouraged to Listen, IMO.

Maybe a place to do that - at least, while Internet is working - is on EchoLink or, for paying customers, CQ100, etc.

After Hatii, there were conferences that dealt with that disaster... not much traffic, but a place to go & hear some.

Of course, tuning about & looking for disaster-related net's & Hams organizing their responses, eg, on VHF or UHF can sometimes be helpful & somewhat informative (eg, for the listener & their family & some of their neighbors).

Scanners - along-side broadcast receivers, tuned to local emergency info broadcasts - are an untrained Ham's best friend... they don't let the desire to help translate into transmissions, that might "clog-up" busy incident channels... ;-)
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W5DQ
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« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2011, 12:13:57 PM »

Sorry XSA but 'US militia' Huh Circa 1776!!!  The US hasn't had a organized militia in over 200 years !!!!
Sure you do:
US Code Title 10
Quote
§ 311. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
The US National Guard consists of the state National Guards, when they are turned over from governor's command to the President - if I understand correctly.

Forestry Service Qualifed WHAT??? I think you're trying to apply EU conditions to US scenarios. There are not going to be many 'forestry service qualified chainsaw operators' around in most places ..... any good ol boy with a truck and chain saw will usually be called on to do the job and they will do it without question - especially in the Southern USA!
This is actually based on a real post-hurricane callout from the USA; I think it was in Texas after Ike in 2008. Probably for insurance or safety reasons, the church specified that they wanted volunteers who were certified by the USDA Forest Service as competent chain saw operators. People who would have this card, would be people who have volunteered or been paid to cut down trees on federal land in the past. Volunteers can do stuff like clearing trails, making fire separations, even supervise other volunteers. They say the only Forest Service job a volunteer can't do, is law enforcement - yes the Forest Service has law enforcement officers too.

Regardless of what US Code says, I am a US citizen, have been since birth (and I, unlike some in the news, have an AUTHENTIC US birth certificate to prove so) and have been associated with the military in one capacity or another since birth and I have never heard of anything called the militia in any form in that time. We have regular US military, active duty reserves, non-active reserves and various branches of National Guard. Tothe best of my knowledge, NG units are in non-active ready reserve status until called up by the President. To state that the US has a 'organized militia' simply because of the words in the US statues is incorrect. If that were the case, we would have alot of thinng in the US taht don't exist in reality and were once a good measure but have been superceded along the way by something else.

As to the Forest Service chain saw issue, I speak from experience. Many places in the US, again especially in the southern US where I grew up, you would be hard pressed to find anyone turned away from helping in a small community after a local or larger disaster. Of course once the US gov't gets involved with agencies like FEMA or other 'official help organizations', all bets are off. But to say in the example of a church needing trees cleared away, anyone with a chainsaw would be put to work immediately upon volunteering regardles of any codes or statues.

Many times in situations like referred to above, things like the US Code or other 'legalese documents' are not referred to to get the job done. It's neighbor helping neighbor get through the worst of it.

Gene W5DQ
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Gene W5DQ
Ridgecrest, CA - DM15dp
www.radioroom.org
LA9XSA
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Posts: 376




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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2011, 04:30:05 AM »

AUTHENTIC US birth certificate
Roll Eyes
have been associated with the military in one capacity or another since birth and I have never heard of anything called the militia in any form in that time. We have regular US military, active duty reserves, non-active reserves and various branches of National Guard. Tothe best of my knowledge, NG units are in non-active ready reserve status until called up by the President. To state that the US has a 'organized militia' simply because of the words in the US statues is incorrect. If that were the case, we would have alot of thinng in the US taht don't exist in reality and were once a good measure but have been superceded along the way by something else.
This isn't some non-enforced law against wearing red shirts on Wednesdays; that section defines the organized militia as the state National Guard (perhaps also the various state defense forces), and defines most everyone else as being part of the unorganized (reserve) militia.
When you're active in the US National Guard, under command of the President, you are not part of the militia, but when you are under the command of the state governor/state adjutant general you are considered part of the organized militia. The reason you've never noticed the term is perhaps the same reason why "police officer" or "cop" is more often used than "peace officer".

The main point here is that the unorganized militia is not trained, while the organized militia has training and sometimes experience from active duty in conflict areas as well. Just owning a gun does not a National Guard make.

As to the Forest Service chain saw issue, I speak from experience.
So do I. It was a real public call for volunteers by a church in Texas that wanted Forest Service certified chainsaw operators only; a guy I talked to tried to volunteer but was turned back. What you're talking about is helping your neighbors, and you can do that. But as you say, with organization comes complications like safety regulations, insurance and potential lawsuits. At least most of the US has Good Samaritan laws - if not it would be like China where if you neighborly help a person in need, you might not just get sued if you do it wrong, but might even be held responsible for the original calamity.  Undecided
« Last Edit: October 20, 2011, 01:30:11 AM by LA9XSA » Logged
AC2Q
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Posts: 348




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« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2011, 01:33:35 PM »

Blah Blah Blah >>>>The fact that you must ask this question suggests that you are not involved with EmCom in our community and that you are uninformed and unprepared. While it is true that amateur radio is a hobby, providing EmCom is a commitment. If you are not adequately trained, equipped and prepared, you cannot do your job competently or safely.<<<<<Blah Blah Blah

Don't let the above response discourage you, most ARES Groups are a good, non-judgemental bunch.

AC2Q



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NN4RH
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Posts: 324




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« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2011, 10:31:43 PM »

Quote
Blah Blah Blah >>>>The fact that you must ask this question suggests that you are not involved with EmCom in our community and that you are uninformed and unprepared. While it is true that amateur radio is a hobby, providing EmCom is a commitment. If you are not adequately trained, equipped and prepared, you cannot do your job competently or safely.<<<<<Blah Blah Blah

I guess Amateur Radio is much too important to be left to mere amateurs.
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LA9XSA
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« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2011, 06:40:05 AM »

I guess Amateur Radio is much too important to be left to mere amateurs.
The "Amateur" in Amateur Radio is supposed to be in the sense "engaging or engaged in without payment" - it's not meant in the sense "inept or unskillful".
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NN4RH
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« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2011, 03:52:47 AM »

The "Amateur" in Amateur Radio is supposed to be in the sense "engaging or engaged in without payment" - it's not meant in the sense "inept or unskillful".

Huh??    Who said anything anything about amateur radio operators being "inept or unskillful" ?     Wasn't me.
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