Why are Honda generators so expensive?

[N2EY]

Quality and selection of generators has improved a lot because of competition.

Yes - and from other factors.

One is environmental regulation. In an effort to meet California and other rules, better small engines were developed.

Another is the increasing unreliability of utilities. Or at least the perception.

I lived for more than 20 years at the old QTH on RadioTelegraph Hill, and in that time had perhaps a few hours total of electricity interruption. One big reason was that the utility tree-trimming crews were ruthless about cutting anything that was near a wire, pole, guy wire, etc., was dead, diseased, etc. The crews worked for the utility.

Then I moved about 10 miles to the present QTH. About the same time the utility outsourced their tree-cutting. Power interruptions are almost routine. Tree-cutting is not as ruthless as it used to be.

Is there a connection? I don't know for sure. Maybe we're getting more really bad weather, maybe there are more old poles and wires, etc. In any event the perception around here is that electricity supply isn't as reliable as it used to be.

And this is not a rural area.

Even a high dollar unit will have a short life with poor maintenance. From time to time you hear of someone complaining of oil usage or motor failure on some name brand engines but it is because if you dig deeper they did not properly service them and change oil often on extend run times. Many do not realize that with 24/7 running you need to change oil every 2 to 3 days max in portable units.

And it has to be decent oil, too.

73 de Jim, N2EY

[W8JX]

I lived for more than 20 years at the old QTH on RadioTelegraph Hill, and in that time had perhaps a few hours total of electricity interruption. One big reason was that the utility tree-trimming crews were ruthless about cutting anything that was near a wire, pole, guy wire, etc., was dead, diseased, etc. The crews worked for the utility.

Then I moved about 10 miles to the present QTH. About the same time the utility outsourced their tree-cutting. Power interruptions are almost routine. Tree-cutting is not as ruthless as it used to be.

Is there a connection? I don't know for sure. Maybe we're getting more really bad weather, maybe there are more old poles and wires, etc. In any event the perception around here is that electricity supply isn't as reliable as it used to be.

I have lived same place for 28 years and for many years we rarely lost power but it is becoming more common place now. I think grid is getting old and load is increasing and that together with tree growth is leading to more failures.

[K3GM]

I have lived same place for 28 years and for many years we rarely lost power but it is becoming more common place now. I think grid is getting old and load is increasing and that together with tree growth is leading to more failures.

I think you're right there.  During our weeklong outage, we had crews from all over the country working on getting us up and running again.  I had a chance to talk to a bunch of them, and they all said the same thing "You guys are crazy! You just don't want tree limbs hanging over power lines!" Together with our electric provider trying to save a buck, and our desire for picturesque tree lined roads and highways of New England we've allowed the trees to interfere with reliable service.  The night of the storm, many parts of the 6 lanes of I-90 were shut down by fallen trees.  In Connecticut, one of those skeletal high voltage transmission towers came down from nearby trees going down and falling into it.

[W8JX]

I have lived same place for 28 years and for many years we rarely lost power but it is becoming more common place now. I think grid is getting old and load is increasing and that together with tree growth is leading to more failures.

I think you're right there.  During our weeklong outage, we had crews from all over the country working on getting us up and running again.  I had a chance to talk to a bunch of them, and they all said the same thing "You guys are crazy! You just don't want tree limbs hanging over power lines!" Together with our electric provider trying to save a buck, and our desire for picturesque tree lined roads and highways of New England we've allowed the trees to interfere with reliable service.  The night of the storm, many parts of the 6 lanes of I-90 were shut down by fallen trees.  In Connecticut, one of those skeletal high voltage transmission towers came down from nearby trees going down and falling into it.

Plus I live in rural area and a lot of poles are 40 years old and older and weakened. Some are even leaning a good bit from prevailing winds. When I moved in grid in area was recently upgraded and in good order and never lost power in storms. In last 3 or 4 months I have had a 7 hr outage and a 40hr one. It prompted me to get a bigger generator and wire in a 240v house feed and transfer switch so I can run water pump. I have a few days of work I need to do and materials to buy to get this done before end of year. I have 30 amp 240v 4 pole receptacle bought and figured out were to mount it and route 35 to 40 feet of 8/4 to it. Need to get wire and switch which I have picked out too.  Funny thing is that 8/4 indoor is same price or cheaper than 10/4 here. I plan to make a  35 ft 8/4 extension cord between generator on socket too. 

[KZ1X]

Honda generators are powered with motors made by my neighbors:


http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=2003021435796

When I have a choice ... and I do ... I buy local.  Local could be W1, or W9 -- or, right down the road here in the Tar Heel State.

Will I pay more?  Sure, a little, up front.

However, when I drive by the plant and I see all those cars in the parking lot, I know those people have good jobs because people like me decided to not try to save a few bucks buying from you-know-where.  I didn't sent my money to some far-off place that treats their workers like chattel, makes them "vote" for one candidate, and denies them basic human rights.

Something to think about.

[W8JX]

When I have a choice ... and I do ... I buy local.  Local could be W1, or W9 -- or, right down the road here in the Tar Heel State.

Will I pay more?  Sure, a little, up front.

It has merit but this also does not always provide best value for you dollar or best product and hints or protectionism. (I talked to a Ford worker once that told me how they were heavily pressured to buy Fords and had to park further away if they were not Ford cars.) That is not what US is supposed to be about.  The are a LOT of good products out there without Honda name and that cost a lot less too. It becomes a fine line between quality and merely buying a name here but mostly pay for name with Honda because you can get same or better quality for much less at times.

[KJ4RWH]

The mindset here almost brings us to the conclusion; There is Honda and there is everything else.
 

[KB2FCV]

and they all said the same thing "You guys are crazy! You just don't want tree limbs hanging over power lines!"

I can remember the power company used to routinely trim trees back from the power lines as general maintenance years ago. At the worst you might be out 24 hours. Nowadays you don't see that.. when they come out they are just putting another bandaid on the system. I imagine budget cuts took away the preventative maintenance they used to do.

To get back on topic, I choise my honda 2kw because it would run what I considered critical. The first and formost thing is my sump pump.. I don't need to test any potential floatation characteristics of my radio gear or anything else in my basement. Next would be heat. I don't need pipes bursting and I guess it would be nice to keep warm in the house without having to put on 10 layers of clothes. Everything else... is a luxury at this point. I can keep the fridge cold if I run it every few hours. Lights, internet, radio, etc.. all luxury items.

This last winter storm was a real test of my setup and it all worked find. I did choose to alternate running my fridge and my furnace but I suppose I could have left the fan on the furnace once it started up the first time and then just leave things be.

So why are honda generators so expensive? Well, I think it's quality and these generators run quiet... which is nice.

[W8JX]

My 200 dollar 3k china built one has never failed to start instantly first pull in nearly five years. Once it ran 2 full sized fridges, full sized freezer, lights, TV and other stuff 14 hours a day for nearly 5 days. (all plugged in same time) When I used it a few month ago, it had not been run for well over a year yet started first pull with fresh gas and oil.

Point is there is a mindset that some think you must spend a grand or more for a reliable 2 or 3 k Honda generator. Well you can do it for a lot less and it does not have to be Honda to be reliable. Do buy bigger than you think you might need. Also you could even get two generics for a lot less than one Honda so you could have a spare while changing oil or servicing other. Is Honda a good unit? Yes. Is it only good unit though? No as there others that cost much much less.

As far as quiet. None of mine are super quiet but then they are not in living room either. Also I kinda like to be able to hear mine a little so I know it is running well by sound alone without looking.

[WB4TJH]

Buy a name brand and pay more, but usually be assured of replacement parts; buy a Chinese made one and good luck. A friend of mine had the latter experience. He went to a parts store to get a replacement part for some Red Chinese made generator he picked up for a bargain, and the clerk asked him, "You need a WHAT for WHICH brand?". Needless to say, he wishes he had spent the extra money on a name brand. You get what you pay for, and caveat emptor.

[W8JX]

Buy a name brand and pay more, but usually be assured of replacement parts; buy a Chinese made one and good luck. A friend of mine had the latter experience. He went to a parts store to get a replacement part for some Red Chinese made generator he picked up for a bargain, and the clerk asked him, "You need a WHAT for WHICH brand?". Needless to say, he wishes he had spent the extra money on a name brand. You get what you pay for, and caveat emptor.

If my 200 buck generator blew up tomorrow I would buy another and still be way ahead of game. When you pay too much for one then you feel obligated to sink a lot more money in it if it needs a major repair. With a cheap one, you can S can it is it needs a major repair.

BTW most units fail because they either run low on oil or are not properly serviced often when used a lot. Many do not understand that you need to change oil about every 25 hrs or so of run time in most engines. Some might go 50 but that is pushing it for a air cooled engine with conventional oil.

[N2EY]

My 200 dollar 3k china built one has never failed to start instantly first pull in nearly five years. Once it ran 2 full sized fridges, full sized freezer, lights, TV and other stuff 14 hours a day for nearly 5 days. (all plugged in same time) When I used it a few month ago, it had not been run for well over a year yet started first pull with fresh gas and oil.

Point is there is a mindset that some think you must spend a grand or more for a reliable 2 or 3 k Honda generator. Well you can do it for a lot less and it does not have to be Honda to be reliable.

That depends on how you define "reliable".

I studied the subject in EE grad school, and there are precise engineering definitions of "reliability" and "availability" and "mean time to failure". But that's not what matters.

What matters is how YOU define "reliable" and how you determine it.

In the case of your Chinese generator, "reliable" means "works when I need it, after sitting unused for a long time". From your description, that generator has maybe 200-300 hours on it, tops. But again, what matters is how YOU define "reliable". That somebody else defines it differently is another matter.

There's also the issue of sample size. Scientific reliability determinations are made by looking at a representative sample of something and seeing the overall group performance. The performance of a single sample doesn't tell very much about the overall reliability.

The reason Hondas have a reputation for reliability is the reports of many units which have performed well. This doesn't mean other brands aren't as good; it simply means we don't have the same data on them.


There are also experiences such as this one:

http://www.vk1od.net/hardware/genset/index.htm


73 de Jim, N2EY

[W3HKK]

read some of the horror stories  on emergency generators.  "Bought a cheap or moderate prices non-name unit - and even some well known brands but at the lower end of the price range -  and it worked fine...for 2-3 years.  Then when I had a power outage, it wouldnt start. Repairs  were very expensive....."  you read things like that over and over.!

Yes, it sure is hard to part with the cash for  a whole-house auto start generator with weekly start up, and reliability.  That's why so many try the more affordable units. You need to do your homework.

Maybe you go with just enough to  provide heating for the whole house on a portable  hook up basis ....say a couple of 1kw  electric heaters  - to save bucks.  But Id still be tempted to go with a Honda.  You may not use it often but when you need it for an extended outage, you really need it.   If outages arent too frequent, I'd be willing to loose the freezer contents, and do without water, cooking,  on a very infrequent basis for the cost savings.  Of course, if youre not home
( say, in FL for the winter) you really do need the auto start whole house units.

And beware of single testimonials about how good something is.  You need to know a wider sampling to know for sure.

[K3WEC]

I have a Harbor Freight 800 watter that is great.  Been doing its job for a couple years.   Have used it to power the fan for the house heating system in outages, and hobby stuff.   Also have a larger (3500 watt I think) unit I bought from Amazon a long time ago.  Same thing.  It has a Honda clone engine.  The parts for the Honda and clone are interchangeable.   Both of my lower-rung units usually start on first pull and I imagine each has 2-4 hundred hours.   I'm not advocating cheap, but there are good, "less expensive" generators to be had that are also time-proven.    I did look at Hondas and such when I bought the larger one, but took the risk and it's been great for years.   

I do start each up monthly to "exercise" under load for 15 or 20 minutes. 

[W8JX]

read some of the horror stories  on emergency generators.  "Bought a cheap or moderate prices non-name unit - and even some well known brands but at the lower end of the price range -  and it worked fine...for 2-3 years.  Then when I had a power outage, it wouldnt start. Repairs  were very expensive....."  you read things like that over and over.!

Yes, it sure is hard to part with the cash for  a whole-house auto start generator with weekly start up, and reliability.  That's why so many try the more affordable units. You need to do your homework.

Maybe you go with just enough to  provide heating for the whole house on a portable  hook up basis ....say a couple of 1kw  electric heaters  - to save bucks.  But Id still be tempted to go with a Honda.  You may not use it often but when you need it for an extended outage, you really need it.   If outages arent too frequent, I'd be willing to loose the freezer contents, and do without water, cooking,  on a very infrequent basis for the cost savings.  Of course, if youre not home
( say, in FL for the winter) you really do need the auto start whole house units.

And beware of single testimonials about how good something is.  You need to know a wider sampling to know for sure.

Funny I have a lot of miles and years on me and the only horror stories I have heard are a few that they never changed or checked oil and unit failed. That is operator error not bad unit and not a need to spend far more money. You properly service it, (change oil and use right type/grade) use fresh gas and run carb dry before storage you will not have any problems with a generic one.