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Author Topic: And you think the code is dead ? think again !  (Read 7634 times)
M0JHA
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Posts: 647




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« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2011, 06:40:29 AM »

The code is dead? Really?
I didn't even know it was sick!  Grin

Ken  AD6KA

nor me  Grin  in fact here in the UK it's getting to be something more people are thinking about doing . Mind you i do rant on to everyone how great it is  Grin


billy
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PA0BLAH
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« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2011, 07:57:14 AM »

Fights behind the frontier.

Of course CW is going EXIT. Within 30 years CW is vanished.

Go to a museum, watch "antique" technology.
Is reading hieroglyphs op to date and in use?
Or Latin, once the international language of science?
Reading the Chappe or Murray optical telegraph signs?

Why is Morse still alive but certainly dying?
1. Because is is not required for becoming a ham on the RF bands anymore.
2. Because the population right now are hams that learned the code compulsory or because they were radio officers on planes, ships and coastal stations.
3. Because there is no need to learn it with the aid of skimmer, decoders and computers you can collect your DXCC CW.
4. Try to use a Flex 5000 with CW, a modern radio design and you instantly know why CW is no option. It started with linear amplifiers. CW became an option and the option will finally disappear.
5. Because forward and backward error correction are no option, Nowadays telegraphy as a means of transmission of reliable information in a noisy environment is OK, but that is NOT Morse but a code suitable for computerized detection, not detection by human beings.

Did you ever think that you could read this message when it had to be transmitted in Morse and converted by ear at the eham server to text and retransmitted to you in order to detect is by ear?
Who learned the code at a usable level (20 wpm) without need in order to get a ham license and without being an ex army of commercial telegrapher?

1% will be pretty good in the ball park.

Ever seen a species in nature that reproduces in the long term when in one generation only 1% newbees are born?

Dream on, and feel lucky

Bob
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 08:12:37 AM by PA0BLAH » Logged
AE4RV
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Posts: 934


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« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2011, 08:27:03 AM »

I can't speak about 30 years in to the future. I think you'll have to go beyond that for total extinction on the ham bands but I can not say.

I do run in to new amateurs who like CW. There are many young Eastern Europeans on the RufzXP toplist. The DX bands are swelling with Morse Code.

As for myself, I got past 10 WPM using free software BEFORE I considered getting a license. Just for kicks. Someone talked me in to getting a ticket and I quickly became a Tech+ with a 13 WPM endorsement. Three weeks later I was a General with a 20 WPM endorsement. AFTER that, I finally had my first nervous CW QSO...

I think the death of CW is greatly exaggerated by some people. I do find it hard to imagine much or any CW use in say, 100 years from now. But, if there are still people around who enjoy DXing, then, I wouldn't be surprised if some of it was in Morse Code.

73, Geoff
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K8AXW
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Posts: 3651




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« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2011, 09:57:02 AM »

BLAH:  I believe as long as ham radio exists, CW will exist and I also feel if the CW user numbers diminish over time, the loss will be very small.  We've had "no-code" licenses for awhile and yet the CW portions of each band continues to be populated more and more.

The reason for this is because of the "word-of-mouth" propagation as to the benefits of CW.  That is, operation with low power, basic equipment and communication when most other modes can't be used for one reason or another. 

While CW might eventually become "extinct" as you predict I like to compare CW to a hammer.  A hammer is a simple basic tool and while it has been improved somewhat throughout the ages, it is still a very basic tool that fills a very basic need quite well.

BLAH, I have no idea how old you are but I feel safe in predicting that CW will still be here long after you're gone.
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N2EY
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Posts: 3835




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« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2011, 10:44:40 PM »

Of course CW is going EXIT. Within 30 years CW is vanished.

I heard that prediction more than 40 years ago.

Go to a museum, watch "antique" technology.
Is reading hieroglyphs op to date and in use?
Or Latin, once the international language of science?
Reading the Chappe or Murray optical telegraph signs?

Not the same thing at all.

People still run marathons even though there are easier and faster ways to cover 26.2 miles. People still paint and draw, even though photography has been around a long time. People still do lots of "old fashioned" things just for the heck of it. People play music on acoustic instruments even though electronic ones have been invented.

Amateur Radio is more about the journey than the destination. That's why Morse Code will survive in Amateur Radio

73 de Jim, N2EY
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N4OI
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Posts: 200




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« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2011, 05:35:01 AM »

[...] The reason for this is because of the "word-of-mouth" propagation as to the benefits of CW.  That is, operation with low power, basic equipment and communication when most other modes can't be used for one reason or another.  [...]

All of the above - if I had to use SSB with my compromised attic dipole, I would have given up on this hobby long ago.   With CW, I can work DX and QRP just like everyone else.  ....   and it is just plain fun to communicate using [a secret] code!  Didn't Ovaltine have a very popular secret decoder ring?  (As immortalized in the movie "A Christmas Story!")

73 de Ken N4OI ES GOD BLESS U ES URS dit dit  Grin
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K5CQB
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« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2011, 06:38:44 AM »

The report of CW's death seem to be a great exaggeration.  I often hear CW ops with the prefix of KE, KF and KG. 
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AE4RV
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« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2011, 07:23:55 AM »

High speed telegraphy seems to be getting MORE popular in the world.

http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,78773.0.html
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K8AXW
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Posts: 3651




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« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2011, 07:25:28 PM »

http://www.arrl.org/news/usa-brings-home-gold-at-2011-high-speed-telegraphy-world-championships

CW seems to be a very popular mode of communication in Eastern Europe.... actually a sport now, whereas in the US, it isn't.  I find this very strange but interesting.  Thinking about this some I can see where the reasons can be everything from our "dumbing down" to perhaps some deep psychological reasons.

As for CW "dying," I think the only place where it might die is here in this country....... but not for a very long time!
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KF7LCE
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Posts: 24




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« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2011, 09:23:06 PM »

It's never going to get any simpler than a mode that only requires a radio to emit a beep when one switch is held down. CW is not going to die unless something can replace something more efficient than that.
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PA0BLAH
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« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2011, 04:28:53 AM »

It's never going to get any simpler than a mode that only requires a radio to emit a beep when one switch is held down. CW is not going to die unless something can replace something more efficient than that.

Good argument,

But why don't you build such a simple  radio yourself?

Why is the Yaesu, Kenwood, Icom you use, very complicated and (hence) bought , when it is so simple to construct and use a CW-only radio?

My answer: because you need all kind of state of the art techniques to make SSB. with a final LINEAR amplifier, utmost 50% yield, and you only need a simple class C UN-linear amplifier 80% yield for CW without ALC and what have you.  

"Linear Amplifier?"  One hundred watt is more than enough to work the whole world comfortable.

Furthermore - because "everybody" buys a complicated radio - the possibilities of constructing a simple "on-off" CW radio from parts is no longer possible in practice. It is pretty difficult to collect the required parts. Especially when it is theoretical possible to use the parts for robots, ballistic missiles and weapons when you live outside the USA.

Don't tell me that buying a kit with all parts, construction manual, drilled and painted cabinet, predrilled and silk screened printed circuit boards, has something to do with "homeBREW'

So CW is an option on hybrid Japanese (!) radio's, far from working optimal when using CW, and the designs are much too complicated for using CW; and CW is only a printed option in the menu's of all DSP radios such as Flex5000, obviously unusable for any CW ham.

Watch with a computer the easy readable signals of 35+ wpm QSO's  on the parameters word- and letterspace, and you will find out (because wordspace is exact 7 and letterspace exact 3 dits) that 95% of those QSO's are computer - keyboard generated. Kind of inferior PSK31 alternative.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 05:10:01 AM by PA0BLAH » Logged
K8AXW
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Posts: 3651




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« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2011, 07:02:24 AM »

BLAH:  At first glance you make some pretty valid points.  But when the dust of your statements is brushed away we come back to the original argument.  That is, CW is not dead or even dying for that matter!  Hell, it isn't even sick as one commenter pointed out!

No matter if you're using one of the many Kb (Kilobuck) rice boxes that has the CW option,  CW will still git 'er done when SSB is buried in the noise or your PSK31 computer is unavailable for any one of the 50K reasons why computers crash. 

As for building a rig you only have to go to the ARRL Homebrew challenge for a 10W CW and SSB transceiver which is homebrew....box/panel and all.  The only "commercial" components involved are the PCBs, which also can be homebrewed if you wish. But then we don't homebrew our capacitors or resistors either, do we?

I built a 40M solid state CW transceiver many years ago that still works fine.  It can be seen in my photo on QRZ.com, sitting on top of the linear.... which is also homebrew.

The ARRL Handbooks have many CW transmitter circuits that one can build and the only other piece of gear necessary is a receiver, which can be anything from an old boat anchor to a simple homebrew, single band receiver.

Then we have the many transceiver kits available for very reasonable prices that operate mainly CW which in many cases allows a new ham to get on the air with very little cash outlay. The only requirement is a little additional work to learn CW.

All in all BLAH, your argument has more holes in it than the vents on my linear!  If anything is dead or dying, it's your opinion of CW.  :-)
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AB7KT
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Posts: 155




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« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2011, 08:37:58 PM »

FWIW:
One day last week (NOT during SS), I tuned across the 80 meter CW band. There were QSOs from end to end. Despite the fact that I operate probably 95% or more CW, even I was surprised at the activity.  I would guess that there is as much CW activity today as there ever was since I became a ham over 30 years ago.
With the higher bands open, there is lots of DX activity ripe for the picking, and the CW pile-ups are huge.
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I thought you said this was a weak signal mode ? I HAVE a weak signal and he still didn't hear me.

FWIW: My callsign is AB8KT
N2EY
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Posts: 3835




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« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2011, 02:20:32 AM »

Consider this data point:

About a dozen years ago, a new, small company in California called Elecraft came out with a kit transceiver called the K2.

The original kit was CW only, QRP only, HF ham bands only, and cost over $500. They had no publicity other than a website and word-of-mouth.

Yet since then they have sold over 6000 of them, and expanded their line to include the K1, KX1 and K3, plus numerous accessories and such. The K1 and KX1 are CW-only, too.

The new KX3 is on the way, and is eagerly anticipated.

There are many other companies making QRP CW rigs, too.

If CW is dead, or dying, who is buying, building and using all those Elecrafts?

73 de Jim, N2EY
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KC9TNH
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Posts: 304




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« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2011, 04:42:28 AM »

If CW is dead, or dying, who is buying, building and using all those Elecrafts?

73 de Jim, N2EY
You can have my T1 tuner when you can pry it from my cold, dead hands.
 Grin

Edit to add:  Yep, DOA, no doubt.
 Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 04:52:10 AM by KC9TNH » Logged

73
Wes -KC9TNH
"Don't get treed by a chihuahua." - Pete
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