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Author Topic: Where the "DE" go?  (Read 2289 times)
AA5TB
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« on: April 19, 2004, 08:59:19 PM »

A lot of CW operators are dropping the "DE" when calling CQ.  For example, CQ CQ CQ AA5TB AA5TB K instead of CQ CQ CQ DE AA5TB AA5TB K.  Why?

I know, I'm nit picking but it bugs me.

73,
Steve Yates - AA5TB
Fort Worth
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W5HTW
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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2004, 10:40:35 PM »

I agree with you totally.  I have no idea how this came about, though someone told me "blame it on the Russians."  It is part of the changing world ("I'll do it my way") of ham radio. Voice operation has already turned into a weird sounding cousin of CB.  And the keyboard and automatic memory keyer crowd is doing the same for CW.; I wonder if it may be they don't want to program that extra couple of characters into their memory keyer?  

Yeah, buddy

Ed
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KE4MOB
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« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2004, 11:08:17 AM »

I haven't heard that.  I have noticed more chirps than I used to....there's one guy on 80 who swings thru abt 200 hz from the beginning to end of the element.
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W4YA
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2004, 07:28:39 AM »

There is no requirement to send DE, so why send it? In the CQ example that you gave, adding a DE would not make the message any clearer. For example, if I answered your CQ with just "W4YA", instead of "XXxXX DE W4YA K", it would save a lot of time by eliminating a lot of unnecessary characters.

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NJ0E
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2004, 04:44:42 PM »

agreed, buy you can only control your own conduct.
send your cq's as you think they should be sent.

the changing ssb habits irk me more. i operate ssb
infrequently, but recently wanted to test a new rig
(make sure it works while under warranty). thought
it annoying when the other station told me what
their "handle" was instead of their "name". never
used to hear that Sad


scott nj0e
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N3ZKP
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2004, 06:35:49 PM »

<<  thought
it annoying when the other station told me what
their "handle" was instead of their "name". never
used to hear that Sad  >>

Hams were using "Handle" long before CB came into being.
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NI0C
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2004, 07:37:25 AM »

Lon is correct concerning "handle."

Many CW ops have been omitting the "de" during CQ's and when signing ever since I was first licensed.  Even FOC ops do this.

Finally, check out AA0MZ's web-site concerning the use of "73's."  You're in for a surprise!

73 de Chuck  NI0C
 
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K5CEY
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2004, 06:28:36 PM »

Well, I would hate to see the "DE" dropped.
  When someone answers me I feel that my most important responsibility at the time is to copy his call letters.

 When sigs are weak, marginal receiving conditions, QRM, etc. I find that hearing "DE" sets my brain up to prepare to copy ones call.

I find that even if one is sending at a speed which is  beyond my usual copying ability, the prepatory "DE" mentally alerts me and I am usually able to at least copy his call letters.

                     John  

 
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AA5TB
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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2004, 07:16:46 PM »

Thanks John,

That is basically how I feel about it too.  I've been operating CW for over 25 years but for some reason only very recently have I been noticing the "de" being dropped.  To me it is annoying as hearing a CQ that goes on thirty times before giving the call.  Like someone else mentioned, I guess everyone should do what is comfortable (If it feels good, do it. Right?).  Likewise, I'll work who I want to.  I for one just hate to see a mode of communication that has lasted so long start losing its traditions.  I guess I'm just a traditionalist.  

I didn't want to stir things up, just curious as to why I was not hearing it anymore.  I'll get over it ;-)

73,
Steve - AA5TB
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WB2WIK
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« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2004, 06:29:22 PM »

I still use "de."

As for "handle," it's true hams have been using "handle" for longer than I can remember, and my first contact with ham radio was as an SWL in about 1960 -- the hams I heard then, who were mostly AM guys, all used, "the handle here is..."

I thought that was so silly that when I got my ticket, I tried to avoid that.  But I did start saying, "The handle here is loose, and if I can reach my screwdriver, I'm going to tighten it up."

Nobody got it.

I went back to, "my name is..." which somehow seemed more sensible, since it's fewer syllables.

WB2WIK/6
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W4EWJ
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2004, 04:26:22 PM »

What does "FOC" mean

ewj
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W5HTW
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« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2004, 12:12:58 AM »

There's nothing "wrong" with dropping the "DE."  When many of us came into ham radio, though, we learned what were accepted and standardized procedures, and on CW the "DE" means "This is."  It is required in professional operating (government, and in the past, commercial.)  One of the reasons hams used it was we were emulating the professionals, and the reason we did that was we were the "communications reservists" who would be called up in a national emergency.  That was the idea behind that portion of the FCC rules, and it was true into the early 1970s.  

(Incidentally, in 'professional' voice operating as well, such as in MARS, or in Aeronautical HF, government voice, etc., the voice equivalent of "DE" is still required;  "This is ..." But we are not professionals; we are hobbyists.  Amateurs.)  

Since the 1980s, (or the late 1970s) though, the military has not needed us as a backup, and will not again.  Consequently the idea we can all 'do our own thing,' has gained a lot of popularity, as we no longer have to comform to any standard procedures or styles.  We are more 'free style' today than we were when those procedures were accepted as being "training" for the real thing. That isn't necessary anymore.  

So, while it is not wrong to leave it out, it is another part, to us OTs, of the tradition slipping away.  It is personal, not professional, and I would not refuse to talk with a ham who failed to use "DE" on CW!  It is his choice, and I can very quickly guess who he is.  

Ed
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NI0C
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2004, 07:45:09 AM »

W4EWJ:
"FOC" stands for "First Class Operator's Club," an elite CW group, primarily (but by no means exclusively) for amateurs in the U.K.  They hang out on 025 on the bands, and sometimes sponsor QSO parties.  I believe they have a web-site.

73 de Chuck  NI0C
 
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AA4PB
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« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2004, 10:14:35 AM »

The term "handle" for name was common practice among phone operators in the 1950's when I first got started. In all likelyhood the CB operators got it from ham radio. The "rules" keep changing. Now days your a "CBer" if you use handle, your a lid if you call CQ on FM and now "DE" is up for grabs. I wonder who makes up these rules?
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W5HTW
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« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2004, 10:49:29 PM »

If you went to the Saturday matinee to watch Cowboy Bob or whomever, back in the 1940s, you heard all the cowpokes on the silver screen ask each other for their "handles."  Which meant, pretty much, 'Something to grab you by."  Whether the term really was used in the 1800s or not is only a guess, but it sure wandered through the cowboy movies.  My thought is ham radio stole it from the cowboy movies.  Then CB stole it from the hams.  

CB stole the ten codes from the movies and TV as well.  And multilated them handily.  (In fact, CB probably multilated everything, but that's a whole 'nother thread!)  Now, because CBers who become hams can actually give their 'real' identity, and not hide behind a handle, they call it 'personal.'  Yup.  The "first personal here is ..."  And, as we further dilute the ham radio service, one of these days that will be taught in the ARRL license manual - "Your name is your first personal.  And your location is your Twenty."   Then the discussion will be about the next wave of CBers stealing that phrase from hams!  

Hot diggity.

Ed
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