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Author Topic: Magnet Mounts....Just how safe are they????  (Read 16056 times)
W8JX
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« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2011, 01:34:01 PM »

John, I agree with Chris.
Anyone can justify anything they wish. Some maligned people even justify murder. But whatever you personally justify, is not prima facie for the rest of us.

Again even you Alan cannot quote one case of anyone being hit or hurt by one or being sued over it. Lots of people have been hit or hurt or killed by cars. Are you going to park yours to make sure you never hurt anyone with it because statistic say odds are far higher of that happening?

It isn't whether they stay put or not, scratch or moon the paint, or never fly off, or whatever justification you wish to use. For me, it is the loss in efficiency, and the common mode issues which go along with using mag mounts. Those are factors you cannot justify even if they do not affect your installation. Dispute as you see fit, but the mobile cognoscenti know better.

I have used them on HF and even VHF with a 7 foot collinear and it worked great. On HF it worked great when traveling out west with a hamstick on roof of suburban at times. Never needed or used a tuner and always got excellent signal reports for a mobile. Alan your dog just does not hunt.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 05:00:12 PM by W8JX » Logged

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K0BG
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« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2011, 06:20:54 AM »

From your response, it is evident you didn't read very carefully.
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K3GM
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« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2011, 06:15:04 PM »

........I have used them on HF and even VHF with a 7 foot collinear and it worked great. On HF it worked great when traveling out west with a hamstick on roof of suburban at times. Never needed or used a tuner and always got excellent signal reports for a mobile.......

But John.... you also claim your 1/4 wave HF vertical works great without radials!  hi hi
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W8JX
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« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2011, 08:07:54 PM »

........I have used them on HF and even VHF with a 7 foot collinear and it worked great. On HF it worked great when traveling out west with a hamstick on roof of suburban at times. Never needed or used a tuner and always got excellent signal reports for a mobile.......

But John.... you also claim your 1/4 wave HF vertical works great without radials!  hi hi

Perhaps you should schedule a contact sometime and find out how well it does work. I get some excellent reports on 40 where I spend most of my time. it is not quite as strong on 20 and above.  I do not know if it is because it is on a hill or if the soil conductivity is good or a combo of both but it does work well.
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KI4SDY
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« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2011, 06:25:22 AM »

While following this string, I have been conducting some research through the appropriate government agencies, including the one named by KOBG, who cited "one death and less than 50 reported injuries" in his original statement.

Lyn Cianflocco of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, National Center for Statistics & Analysis, Data Reporting and & Information Division, states the following; "NCSA has received your request for any deaths and/or injuries caused by magnetic communication antennas on the exterior of vehicles coming off the vehicles. Unfortunately, our files do not get that identified as to the data you are looking for. I am not sure what agency, if any, would be able to provide that data."

In short, they do not have any records and or statistics of such incidents involving magnetic antennas.  Shocked

I also contacted the National Safety Council who referred me to the Consumer Product Safety Administration. They do not have any records of such incidents involving magnetic antennas either.  Shocked

In my own 25 years of public safety, I do not know of any deaths and or injuries that resulted from a magnetic antenna coming off of a vehicle and used such antennas on police vehicles at speeds up to 140 MPH chasing criminals without a single incident of an antenna releasing. We also relied on such antennas for life and death communications with excellent results and performance. This was at a time when public safety communications were on lower bands and the antennas were physically longer.  Cool

I have also used them privately on my own vehicles for about 40 years and have experienced the same reliable good performance although, if possible, I do prefer a permanently mounted antenna.  Smiley

Having stated all of that, I would like to know specifically where KOBG's supposed statistics came from and I would like as much detail as to the source as I have provided. Always be suspicious when someone, who seems emotionally attached to a given subject, starts citing statistics without giving the specific source of his information!  Wink

People can always mount an antenna that defies the laws of physics on their vehicle, whether permanent or magnetic mount, and have a mishap. We have seen testimony to that here. This has more to do with the safety of the operator and less to do with the safety of equipment. Grin
 
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 04:39:11 PM by KI4SDY » Logged
K1CJS
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« Reply #50 on: December 26, 2011, 03:25:18 AM »

John,  Do you also still insist that it is OK to use undersize wiring to feed a load as long as you use a capacitor at the load end to even out the voltage drop?  AS I said, some people are sadly lacking in the practicality/safety aspects of all too many things.
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W8JX
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« Reply #51 on: December 26, 2011, 05:05:42 AM »

John,  Do you also still insist that it is OK to use undersize wiring to feed a load as long as you use a capacitor at the load end to even out the voltage drop?  AS I said, some people are sadly lacking in the practicality/safety aspects of all too many things.

If by undersize you mean not using wire that is greatly over-sized for circuit load, yes. Example, you do not need to use 6 or 8 ga wring for a 20 amp radio load but judging by your tone and loss of magnet mount spat you looking for a new confrontation and are likely implying I suggested wire truly undersized (rated current capacity) for circuit load but I have never suggested that.
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K1CJS
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« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2011, 06:30:38 AM »

No, no new confrontation.  Thank you for the answer.  My point is made.
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W8JX
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« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2011, 10:10:03 AM »

No, no new confrontation.  Thank you for the answer.  My point is made.

Yes you made point alright but not one you thought.
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G7DIE
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« Reply #54 on: December 27, 2011, 01:29:49 PM »

That last line says it all.  The safety factor should be the one thing that would preclude the use of magnet mounts on a moving vehicle.  No matter how many miles someone claims to have travelled with no issues, there is always tomorrow.  And tomorrow may well prove to be the day that something DOES happen--even to someone who thinks they're safe because nothing ever happened to them.

I can also attest to the paint issues that are mentioned in the first paragraph.  I had the use of a company car where I used a magmount, and I had to get it repaired where the magmount had damaged the paint--or I had to pay up front when turning it in.  

Magmounts certainly are convenient--but is that convenience worth someones life?  I think not.

I'm employed as an Aircraft Engineer with a UK airline, we operate both Boeing and Airbus aircraft, fitted with Rolls Royce, General Electric, International Aero Engine, and CFM International engines, they ALL use historical data in order to review service intervals and life limitations, hours on wing, cycles, flight hours etc etc, time between failure, mean time between failure are all methods to establish reliability, indeed there is always tomorrow, will you now be giving up flying, driving, walking?

Just a thought  Wink
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K1CJS
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« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2011, 06:13:22 AM »

I'm employed as an Aircraft Engineer with a UK airline, we operate both Boeing and Airbus aircraft, fitted with Rolls Royce, General Electric, International Aero Engine, and CFM International engines, they ALL use historical data in order to review service intervals and life limitations, hours on wing, cycles, flight hours etc etc, time between failure, mean time between failure are all methods to establish reliability, indeed there is always tomorrow, will you now be giving up flying, driving, walking?

Just a thought  Wink

No, I won't.  My point is simply this.  There are always people who either don't stop to think about a magmount holding power--or who simply don't care.  Then, when something happens, they're the first to b*tch, moan and complain to the dealer, the manufacturer--and even to the court system about how 'unsafe' products are allowed on the market.

Added to that, some people will modify those magmounts with things to prevent damage to the paint finish of cars, and in the process, inadvertantly change the design specs so the magnetic holding effect is lessened.  Those people won't think about that, and figure that the advertized grip of that magnet is still the same.  Next thing they know, the mount is being dragged along behind (or beside) them by its coax.

Others will figure that they can 'get away with' a mount that isn't really meant to be used with an extended length antenna, or a mount that has a disclaimer, "not to be used at highway speeds" and the same thing will happen.  There use to be a so called 'magmount' offered for sale that had a nineteen inch thin whip on it--and the magnet was less than the size of a half dollar!  (This is the one that had the disclaimer on it.)  There are people who would still buy it and use it no matter if they travelled a city or country road--or a highway.

For every one or two people who take the time to make sure of the so called 'trivialities' of these things, there are a dozen or more that do not.  Nothing will ever happen to them--and look out for them and the fallout they would cause if something does.
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KI4SDY
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« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2011, 08:50:19 AM »

The last post, like the former that I responded to, has no verified statistics by any official agency concerning the claims made. It is only opinion from someone who, for unknown reasons, is emotionally against the use of magnetic antennas, despite their popular use for decades without even one verified injury or death! Had there been any such events, the army of lawyers in this country would have sued the makers of magnetic antennas out of existence. I challenge the last poster to verify, with just one public record, any lawsuit regarding a magnetic antenna!  Wink

In fact, even the antenna "that had a 19 inch thin whip on it -- and the magnet was less than the size of a half dollar" that was referred to is still made by MFJ and others. We are currently using it on the lady ham's Mustang's rear narrow fender (MFJ-1722). It has given excellent performance and has never come off, even though we added a disc of self-stick scuff coat tape to the bottom to reduce the extremely strong hold of the magnet so it can actually be removed to periodically wash underneath. Still, we have have experienced no antenna problems, after years of use with her lead foot at highway speeds. Believe me, that is an acid test for failure! Again, here is the same person commenting on a piece of equipment he has never owned or used.  Roll Eyes

The National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration has published a statement from the U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray Lahood, who stated in 2009, vehicle related deaths fell to 33,000 for the year of 2009. A decrease even while miles driven increased .2% over 2008 levels, some states no longer requiring motorcycle riders to wear helmets and people using cell phones behind the wheel. With the increase in the number of hams, many who are using magnetic antennas, deaths should have risen if this was a real hazard. Again, there are no deaths or injuries reported by this government agency as a result of magnetic antennas, regardless of the previously posted erroneous information. According to the NHTSA's actual statistics, these magnetic antenna safety condemners should park their cars and start walking if they want to save lives!  Wink      
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 11:18:28 AM by KI4SDY » Logged
W8JX
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Posts: 6080




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« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2011, 05:07:14 PM »

The last post, like the former that I responded to, has no verified statistics by any official agency concerning the claims made.

I think K1CJS is his own "official" agency and has his own trumped up statistics.
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KE4DRN
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« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2011, 06:36:28 PM »

hi,

I remember all the CB mag mounts from the 1970's on all the cars,
if the mag mounts were a real danger we would have data on that.

I am more worried about that handyman truck in front of my car
on the highway with half a dozen ladders held down with a few
sun bleached bungee cords.

73 james
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KI4SDY
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« Reply #59 on: December 31, 2011, 02:34:41 AM »

A matter of fact, I have a collection of rubber bungee cords from those "handyman trucks" that I picked up off the road and keep in my truck tool box for emergencies. I throw the bad ones away and keep the good ones. I pick them up to keep the S hooks from piercing people's tires. Still, no record of anyone being injured or killed by flying bungee cords. The flying ladders may be another matter! Grin
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 02:45:06 AM by KI4SDY » Logged
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