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Author Topic: /QRP suffix in call sign  (Read 6637 times)
PA0BLAH
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« on: December 30, 2011, 01:29:38 AM »

In my license is required that I have to announce my rig with my call. When I am portable /P has to be added, and when guest in another listed country I have to use country_prefix/mycall

Furthermore it is prohibited to contact not licenced amateur stations.

In order to know whether or not a station is licensed, there must be a method to check their call.

When a station announces itself as call/QRP without spaces, that is an illegal call, the /QRP suffix is not an allowed
suffix, hence when a station uses /QRP I am not allowed to work it because it is not a registered call.

So when somebody calls me with that /QRPsuffix I answer his call without that suffix. I didnot hear it. Result: he is going QRS and QRSS.

What the heck is the sense of telling me with an illegal call suffix you are working below 5 watt?
Next step to add /QRO so I know immediately that I better don't answer when that stn is S 4.

I like to read a book, and I use adequate light 60 watt or so. When somebody enjoys to sit in the dark and read his book with the light of a single low power LED, it is his choice, I don't want to know about his madness. One step further and he puts a bike in the room, with a dynamo 5V 2 W on the wheel, reading his book with that power for lighting the room and urging the xyl to drive the dynamo by sitting on the stationary vehicle, all the evening long.
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K0RS
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« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2011, 03:14:48 AM »

It is of course right and proper to abide by your licensing authority's requirement.  In the USA, the lack of any enforcement action, or indeed even a definitve statement by the FCC on such shenanigans, seems to indicate that they really don't give a damn.  After all, any sane person can indentify the actual callsign from within the larger conflageration created by the op.  One hears any number of things appended to callsigns; abbreviations for who knows what, Q signals, numbers that I suppose mean something to someone, somewhere.  I believe even the ARRL sponsored an event that encouraged attaching some type of numerical suffix to one's call.

Beyond the random nonsense, one has to wonder about the pyschology of appending the ubitquitious "/QRP" to one's call.  I would guess the average QRPer would aver that, more than any one other reason, it's to identify one's self to another like minded individual.  Perhaps this is true.  Should another QRP station hear you, you can go off and QRP together.  Should you both be QRPp, you can QRPp together in magnificent splendor.  At which point it may be prudent to abandon this particular graphic elucidation, especially on a family forum.

It has always seemed to me that it is not so much a PPing celebration than it is a plea for sympathy.  "Work me, I'm weak!" Or "Aren't you just amazed you can even hear me?"  Uh, maybe.  Or even the more didactic "Look what I can do with xx milliwatts.  Aren't you just ashamed of yourself, you energy hog!?"

It becomes even more onerous in the DX pileup where the “QRP” part often takes precedence over the actual callsign.  “QRPeee, QRPeee, number 9 QRPeeeeee!!”  Please.  Hey, you wanna work QRP?  Fine.  Nobody else gives a damn.  Oops, the secret’s out, there, I said it.   Just work the DX with your callsign…only…if you can.  Should you luck out and get through, great.  Go to bed and sleep the sleep of the righteous.  You’re a real A-One op, Sport.

I’ve been known to actually ignore “/QRP” callers in contests, even if they are plainly audible.  How are you supposed to log that anyway?  Most rules say you should log exactly what’s sent.  The QRP suffix drives most logging programs nuts.  Screw it.  If I am in a casual contact with a station that begins appending the QRP thing on his call, I will never, and mean never, return the call in similar fashion.  Guess he musta been too weak to get that extra part on the end…
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 11:08:41 PM by K0RS » Logged
N3QE
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« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2011, 03:19:06 AM »

I think you are taking an extremely narrow, indeed entirely typographical, view of what constitutes the call vs what constitutes supplementary (but not legally necessary) information outside the call.

By long tradition some simple supplementary information about who you are or who you are calling, outside the typographical call itself, is allowed in a call. e.g. "CQ TEST N3QE". Or "4S7?? DE N3QE"

Now, we can have a long thread here or elsewhere about whether /QRP is useful (as opposed to legal) supplementary information or not. In a couple contests (e.g. Stew Perry) there are bonus points for working stations that are QRP and I would argue that at a very minimum, it can be useful there.

Tim.
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K8AXW
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« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2011, 08:09:28 AM »

Very good points for boys and girls!  I bought a 4W XCVR with the idea of playing QRP.  However, I gave that up because of the guilt I felt because I was feeding into my tribander which would give me a theoretical 32W of ERP.  Which is hardly QRP.

I think QRP operators should limit themselves to a wire antenna.

I have a friend in Germany who operates QRP with a 20M dipole which is 9ft off the ground!  He works all over the world and I admire this.  (For various reasons)  He asks no quarter.

Quote
When somebody enjoys to sit in the dark and read his book with the light of a single low power LED, it is his choice, I don't want to know about his madness.
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AA5TB
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« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2011, 10:24:01 AM »

K8AXW,

Keep in mind that even a dipole 1/4 wave length high will have a lot of gain straight up for NVIS.  In my mind using antenna gain to determine QRP is silly due to all of the variables involved.  What if you used a simple wire antenna on the slope of Pike's Peak?  Would that be QRP?  The antenna would be better than anything you could put up at home.  The idea is to get the most out of your QRP power.  Antenna gain does not actually increase any power.  That being said, I know that there are many who feel the way that you do and that's fine.  I just hope it doesn't keep them from enjoying QRP operation.  The more you think about it the crazier the idea is.

To those of us that routinely practice QRP operation we know that each of us have our own idea of what we call QRP, although we almost all agree that it means no greater than 5 Watts output power out of the rig.  Sometimes 10 Watt PEP on SSP is acceptable. 

In regards to adding /QRP to the end of a call, I say to each his own.  However, in my experience it usually reduces my number of contacts.  I don't feel that a QRP station should get special treatment unless during an emergency.  It is also very bad in a contest since it lengthens the call too much.  I have the best luck just signing with my call sign and if propagation is good I'll get an answer and then I'll tell them way into our QSO that I am QRP.  I find that some hams will copy me fine until I say that I am QRP. ;-)  In most cases though my QRP QSO's are my longest and best QSO's.  I guess there is just more to talk about when I operate QRP with homebrew gear.  When I'm on or near the QRP watering hole frequencies (ex., 7030 kHz) I may sign AA5TB QRP with no slash just so my QRP friends will recognize me easier.

I have found that the easiest way to QRP success is to not act like a QRP station.  Get you CW proficiency up and run your station like your using a kW.  If you signal is a bit weak everyone will just think the path isn't the best. :-)

73,
Steve - AA5TB

I don't always run QRP, but when I do, I prefer CW.
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K0RS
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« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2011, 11:40:54 PM »

I gave that up because of the guilt I felt because I was feeding into my tribander which would give me a theoretical 32W of ERP.  Which is hardly QRP.

I used to run 5w to a 2el 40m beam @ 100 ft.  I didn’t feel guilty, I felt loud. Cheesy

Quote
I have a friend in Germany who operates QRP with a 20M dipole which is 9ft off the ground!  He works all over the world… He asks no quarter.

Exactly.  When you run with the big dogs and no one even knows that you’re QRP, then you can be proud of your operating skills.   Deciding to be QRP then begging for special consideration is nothing to be proud of.  A-1 op certificates don’t come packed inside a K2 box.  One of the most impressive things I ever heard on the air was W9KNI, running QRP on 20m CW one night, breaking a pileup for a 4S7 station.  Knocked my sox off.

 
I have found that the easiest way to QRP success is to not act like a QRP station.  Get you CW proficiency up and run your station like your using a kW.  

Admirable philosophy.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2011, 11:42:39 PM by K0RS » Logged
K0TF
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« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2011, 02:33:08 AM »

Furthermore it is prohibited to contact not licenced amateur stations.
When a station announces itself as call/QRP without spaces, that is an illegal call, the /QRP suffix is not an allowed
suffix, hence when a station uses /QRP I am not allowed to work it because it is not a registered call.
Firstly, incorrect statement about subject, in this context QRP will be considered PREFIX, not suffix, but I digress. Lets go further, what about  /AM; /LH; /WFF; /«IOTA designator»? and godzillion other "self proclaimed countries"?
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WB0FDJ
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« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2012, 03:26:42 PM »

I had to smile when reading the comments from K0RS. And also have to agree.  Wink

QRP operating happens to be my thing. I don't see any advantage to signing /QRP. None at all. The good QRP ops that I've run across, the ones I admire, don't use it either. And I do occasionally hear them getting through pile ups without the /QRP nonsense.
73s DOC
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N3OX
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« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2012, 07:51:02 PM »

When a station announces itself as call/QRP without spaces, that is an illegal call, the /QRP suffix is not an allowed
suffix, hence when a station uses /QRP I am not allowed to work it because it is not a registered call.

It is explicitly legal for a U.S. station to add self-assigned "indicators" of various sorts.  I don't know about the Netherlands.

From US CFR Title 47 Part 97.119(c):

Quote
(c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. Each indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark (/) or by any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an indicator is self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or both before and after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may conflict with any other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with any prefix assigned to another country.

If you don't like the practice, that's fine.  I don't like the practice, I don't think it's an advantage.  But it's not universally illegal ( if it is even illegal anywhere)

Quote
In order to know whether or not a station is licensed, there must be a method to check their call.

C'mon.  Why argue like this?  There are plenty of other good reasons for people to simply use their assigned callsign alone when they run QRP power levels.

Quote from: N3QE
In a couple contests (e.g. Stew Perry) there are bonus points for working stations that are QRP and I would argue that at a very minimum, it can be useful there.

I've never tried to do the Stew with an eye toward winning but since the score EXPLICITLY depends on working far away and lower power stations I would think that people would take particular care to dig out the weak ones.  In the first moments when you hear a call you never know when that weak KB3 is in CN85 or the weak W5 is actually a QRP station the next state over.  

I guess maybe signing /QRP and your grid when calling CQ might have some merit but people are probably either going to stop and try to work you or not, not wait through an extra-long CQ unless they're really hurting for QSOs, and won't it just annoy them then?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 07:53:08 PM by N3OX » Logged

73,
Dan
http://www.n3ox.net

Monkey/silicon cyborg, beeping at rocks since 1995.
N3QE
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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2012, 05:56:00 AM »

I guess maybe signing /QRP and your grid when calling CQ might have some merit but people are probably either going to stop and try to work you or not, not wait through an extra-long CQ unless they're really hurting for QSOs, and won't it just annoy them then?

I think it's entirely appropriate for a US station to sign with a slash-current-call-zone if their actual QTH is different than what you would assume from the digit in the call. This used to be legally required and continuing it in a contest where folks might be confused otherwise, can be a good thing.

I have heard HF stations signing CW and digital CQ's with their grid. I don't really like it but I'm not personally a grid chaser. It seems likely (just a wild-assed guess) to me that these guys were mobile and perhaps wanted to let folks know they weren't in their home grid.

I have also heard a couple guys, in recent phone SS contests, including their section as part of their CQ. I don't really like that either, but then again I'm not the guy who expects to work 80 sections in 80 QSO's. There's at least a couple of them :-).
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LA9XSA
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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2012, 11:42:16 AM »

So in conclusion, the /QRP part is perfectly legal, since it's not confused with other suffixes and prefixes, but not all QRP operators choose to use it since it's optional.

Incidentally, the /P designator is required in some countries, but not in others.
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N3QE
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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2012, 04:30:03 AM »

Very good points for boys and girls!  I bought a 4W XCVR with the idea of playing QRP.  However, I gave that up because of the guilt I felt because I was feeding into my tribander which would give me a theoretical 32W of ERP.  Which is hardly QRP.

I think QRP operators should limit themselves to a wire antenna.

Taking this argument to the extreme other end... I could run a kilowatt into a dummy load and claim I'm QRP, since radiation efficiency is probably less than 0.5% :-)

Tim.
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KC9TNH
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2012, 07:05:31 AM »

I bought a 4W XCVR with the idea of playing QRP.  However, I gave that up because of the guilt I felt because I was feeding into my tribander which would give me a theoretical 32W of ERP.  Which is hardly QRP.

I think QRP operators should limit themselves to a wire antenna.
(Can't help your personal guilt OM.) As to whether QRP operators should limit their antenna capabilities might depend on the reason. If one is in a contest that has a category for running an antenna (and creating a result) that has such gain, then one so declares. If not, then one should limit themselves to what constitutes traditional QRP in accordance with the rules for whatever endeavor.

If running < 5w is all one has and the goal is to make the best commo possible then if you can get 1.5 S-units of gain because you're very savvy & runnning a great antenna I say "Bravo!"  - drive on.
 Grin
If one doesn't want to recognize someone appending /QRP then don't & don't input the log that way. (I don't call that way when I'm running that way for the reason originally stated, although that treatise was certainly a long way 'round the barn...)
This seems to be much (drama) ado about nothing.
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73
Wes -KC9TNH
"Don't get treed by a chihuahua." - Pete
PA0BLAH
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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2012, 07:18:32 AM »

How about keeping on topic?

Working 10 kW, as purchased because we are not able to design and build such equipment ourselves, and our IQ is sufficient narrow below 100 to recognise that we better can't  try to do that,  adding /QRP in a contest
with a 6 element beam, and a phase array vertical on 40 and 80 (all bought), will yield big advantage.
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LA9XSA
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« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2012, 03:46:53 PM »

Most of these contests aren't just about rewarding operator technique, but also antenna construction and station building. Some of them ask you to use portable power sources and set up your station in a limited amount of time, for example. I say keep the QRP designator as today for those delivering low power from the radio to the antenna system, and instead make a new category for those using compromised antennas. With all these HOA's and other restrictions, that might be a good idea actually.
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