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Author Topic: "Distracted Driving": What Dave Sumner did NOT say  (Read 19498 times)
AA4PB
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« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2012, 02:41:56 PM »

It seems like some over here want our government to step in and take their mobile ham radio privledges away from them.
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AI8P
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« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2012, 04:39:38 PM »

Robert,

How many times are you going to post on the same topic without adding anything to the discussion.

Let me address your earlier list:

Well, the I guess the government should outlaw all of the following in order to protect us from outselves:

1) AM/FM radios in vehicles  - music at reasonable volume is no problem - only very loud volumes
2) Talking to passengers - data shows adult passenger REDUCES your chance of accident
3) Navigation devices - you should set your destination while the vehicle is not moving
4) Two-way radios in police cars and emergency vehicles. They could be automatically disabled any time the vehicle is moving just to make sure the cops follow the rules  Grin  which part of "non-emergency use" is beyond your comprehension?
5) Cell phones - I agree you shouldn't use cell phones in moving cars
6) CD players - see #1, no problem
7) Ipods - see #1 - no problem
8 Paper maps - the driver should not be using a paper map in a moving vehicle
9) Food or drink of any type. Auto mfgs must remove drink holders. - you should not eat or drink while driving - leave the cup holders - they're convenient when I'm parked
10) Make up, hair brushes, etc. kept within reach of the driver. - you should not apply makeup or shave or do your hair while driving
11) Require Breathalyzer installed on all vehicles to prevent starting the vehicle if you are drunk or have bad breath  Shocked - I'm in favor of keeping drunks from driving

I believe the report was in error about one thing: The Gov't didn't outlaw texting while driving for federal employees. I believe it outlawed texting while driving a "government vehicle" for federal employees. Military bases also outlaw hand held cell phone use or texting for anyone while driving on the base.


[/quote

See my responses above - if you think these are unreasonable restrictions on drivers, well, I'm glad you are not in Ohio sharing the road with me.

Dennis
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AA4PB
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« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2012, 05:03:56 PM »

"11) Require Breathalyzer installed on all vehicles to prevent starting the vehicle if you are drunk or have bad breath  - I'm in favor of keeping drunks from driving"

Me too, but I'm not in favor of the government requiring a breathalyzer on every vehicle. Are you? You make it sound like you are willing to give up all of your rights in order to prevent a few from doing things they shouldn't be doing. Sorry, but I'm going to keep the mobile installed in my vehicle - even when driving through Ohio. Guess you'd better stay clear of Dayton if you don't want to be on the road with mobile operators  Grin

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AI8P
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« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2012, 06:11:48 PM »

Ok, we're both against drunk drivers.

That has nothing to do with this topic.

I'm in favor of puppies.   That's not related either.

Dennis
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K7RBW
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« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2012, 07:00:54 AM »

The study on this that I read that makes the most sense is that it's not the device (cell phone, ham radio, Stereo, whatever), but the amount of attention it needs. In this study, they found that it was the conversation more than the phone call that was the distraction. The phone just facilitates the distracting conversation.

Applying this to other devices you might find in a car:

A car radio with push-button tuning (sometimes with those buttons on the steering wheel) isn't much of a distraction.

Operating CW for an experienced operator can also be very little distraction. It would be disaster for me (not being an experienced CW operator), but I knew some ops that could copy 25+ WPM (on a keyboard) while carrying  on a completely separate conversation.

Having a rag-chew on a mobile radio with a good speaker and a hand mike isn't much of a distraction, most of the time, but trying to copy traffic or tune in a faint DX station while mobile would be a problem.

So, pretty much anything in the car can be a distraction (e.g. having a dog on your lap, the kid's soccer team in the back, etc.). It's up to the driver to manage that and keep their priorities straight. When the activities in the car take priority over driving is when there's trouble.
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N2RRA
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« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2012, 09:30:46 AM »

Mike (WA4D),

Your an idiot! I'll go against you and prove without a doubt ham radio equipment can be operated without hazard any day of the year. You can not compare operating a radio via microphone compared to texting on a cell phone which has countless times been mentioned on News stations or debates since accidents were at a all time high. I've never heard of a case ever an "accident kills occupants because operating a ham radio".

Your thread before this was ridiculous and still is ridiculous. Your an insult, and a threat to the community and you should be distinguished. Better yet you should be exiled!!
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 02:32:15 AM by N2RRA » Logged
AI8P
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« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2012, 09:38:48 AM »

Eric,

You seem to have a little bit of an anger issue there, my friend.  Even though your reply is of a nature to not be taken seriously, I'll indulge you.

I would like you to "prove without a doubt ham radio equipment can be operated without hazard any day of the year."

I await your scientifically based, peer-reviewed evidence. 

Dennis
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N2RRA
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« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2012, 05:15:10 PM »

LOL!

Just saying what others would like to say and how I see it. Straight shooter!

I'll work on that being you indulged me Dennis I'll return the favor, but research takes time and time is what I'll have to prove Mike wrong. We all on this thread and the thread Mike wrote before this one are waiting for him to prove to us ham radio use was documented too being the cause of a mobile accident with injury or fatality.

Can you imagine ham radio without mobile capability? Not only from a Emmcomm prospective but all around general use. I run mobile all the time and for twenty years never getting into an accident. To have this one pro government supporter ruin my fun and for the rest of us would be wrong. In fact I have gotten into an accident for falling asleep on the wheel after putting in 12 hour shifts at work. Can't tell you how many countless days and years my transceiver in the mobile has kept me from sleeping at the wheel. Even on long distant rides across the country.

Just cause hes not capable and feels this way which is the reason for his theory doesn't mean he's gotta impose a ban of mobile operation for the rest of us.

My anger...well that's another story! Just fed up with his post. I was cool with his last thread and now he's persistent on gaining support for his agenda and it's not gonna happen.

73 Dennis!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 05:21:47 PM by N2RRA » Logged
AI8P
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« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2012, 03:48:34 AM »

So we now base things on anecdotal evidence?

My Dad smoked for 70 years and never got lung cancer - damn docs are obviously lying to us!

Keith Richards has been using heroin since I was a baby and he's still ticking (although opinions vary as to whether a zombie can be poisoned!) - damn government is lying to us!

I was exposed to a ton of asbestos in the Navy and never got any lung diseases - those asbestos lawsuits are obviously a scam!

I talked on my cell phone and on my ham mobile for years while driving and never had an accident - obviously distracted driving is a myth.

I'm an engineer.   The world works this way for me:   my opinion vs your opinion is a draw,  my opinion vs your facts means you win.

If you take a look at the abundance of available studies, I believe the inevitable conclusion is that a number of activities that are adequate proxies for ham mobile operation have been shown to impair driving.   That's good enough for me.   

Some people will go to any irrational extreme to justify their belief:

"Well, they didn't actually study ham mobile operations"

"Well, they only studied 2M ham mobile operations, so 70cm is still ok"

"Well, they never studied 70cm mobile operation using a Kenwood radio"

Well, I have a custom mic, and they never tested 2M operation with my radio and this custom mic, so obviously what I do is ok"

Don't be that irrational guy!   I think the evidence is in.  Hams have a long history of being technical people who are willing to accept the facts.   Let's not change that now.

It's time to stop operating while driving.

Dennis
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K1CJS
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« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2012, 06:07:09 AM »

Dennis, I was laughing--hard--after reading your post.  Nice shot--and right at the bullseye too!  73!
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N2RRA
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« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2012, 06:17:32 AM »

So we now base things on anecdotal evidence?

My Dad smoked for 70 years and never got lung cancer - damn docs are obviously lying to us!

Keith Richards has been using heroin since I was a baby and he's still ticking (although opinions vary as to whether a zombie can be poisoned!) - damn government is lying to us!

I was exposed to a ton of asbestos in the Navy and never got any lung diseases - those asbestos lawsuits are obviously a scam!

I talked on my cell phone and on my ham mobile for years while driving and never had an accident - obviously distracted driving is a myth.

I'm an engineer.   The world works this way for me:   my opinion vs your opinion is a draw,  my opinion vs your facts means you win.

If you take a look at the abundance of available studies, I believe the inevitable conclusion is that a number of activities that are adequate proxies for ham mobile operation have been shown to impair driving.   That's good enough for me.  

Some people will go to any irrational extreme to justify their belief:

"Well, they didn't actually study ham mobile operations"

"Well, they only studied 2M ham mobile operations, so 70cm is still ok"

"Well, they never studied 70cm mobile operation using a Kenwood radio"

Well, I have a custom mic, and they never tested 2M operation with my radio and this custom mic, so obviously what I do is ok"

Don't be that irrational guy!   I think the evidence is in.  Hams have a long history of being technical people who are willing to accept the facts.   Let's not change that now.

It's time to stop operating while driving.

Dennis

Irrational? Me?

I'm not the one that can't think rationally. Seems like you two characters can't seem to grasp the concept that the cause of accidents are due to human era like everything else. Here's a couple!

Guns don't kill! People kill people!

If you leave the gun alone it won't kill. As soon as theres human intervention that changes things. Should you condemn everyone from owning a gun cause some idiot doesn't know how to handle one or miss use's it? Absolutely not!!

Just because I feel like many others that have experienced an elderly driver that can barely see and moving at 30 miles an hour on a freeway swerving should have a suspended license along with every elderly person his/her age above 70. Absolute not!!

Electronics don't kill people! Idiots that can't operate them while driving do.

I've never in my life come across any accident that involved an amateur radio operator. We can  spot one on the road just like you can spot your own vehicle equipped with the same gear. I know if I had seen a mobile ham in distress I would most certainly see if they were all right. In the countless accidents due to his/her operating as per your claim I would certainly remember and I have never witnessed an accident in such a circumstance.

You suggestion I'm irrational becomes contradictory when you use sarcasm as irrefutable evidence the majority is wrong.  Your tactic clearly shows your irrational act based on minimal evidence on too broad of a subject and illogical to the topic. What do any of those quotes and who your quoting proves nothing on what you claim.

Logic and rationality would agree a human being is responsible for their actions and thats why we have insurance and the law structure now in place to prove one guilty. There's is nothing in the books to prove your claims that ham radio specifically is the cause of this accident epidemic.

 When they inacted on cell phone use was because it was the major player that condemned most portable electronics. Before cell phone use there was ham radio and C.B. radio and never had they either been mentioned as a main cause of automobile accidents in the category of DUI, DWI and cell phone use along with texting. Never!

You two guys are just the type of guys that always have to be Mr. Right and are condeming all of us due to your lack of capability driving while operating. Therefore assuming "irrationally" we have a the same problem. Not!!!

Good luck with your agenda!
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 06:21:07 AM by N2RRA » Logged
AI8P
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« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2012, 09:53:31 AM »

There is a reason why we have such good statistics as to how much cell phone usage contributes to traffic accidents and we don't see such statistics for Ham radio and CB.

I don't know if you are aware that it is routine now for law enforcement to examine the cell phone records of people who are in accidents.    You will often see "He was using his cell phone just before the accident" or "he was texting just prior to the incident".  That's not because he volunteered that information, it's because they checked the cell phone records.

(Thankfully) Ham radio does not leave a legal record of when it is being used.   That is the reason that we don't see statistics for Ham Radio and traffic accidents.

However,  if you look at the research you will see many good analogues for Ham radio amongst the activities that have been shown to promote tunnel vision and to slow reactions. 

It is irrational to say "Just because things that are comparable to my activity have been shown to be a problem doesn't count, because the EXACT thing that I do has not been studied."

Look, I'm not trying to take away anyone's rights - I'm trying to keep people safe, including Hams and the people who share the highways with them.

Eric,  I'm overjoyed that you have never had an accident while operating mobile.  However, that is no evidence that it isn't a distraction.   I know a lot of fat Hams who don't exercise.   None of the ones I know has had a heart attack.   However, I still believe that statistically, maintaining our weight and getting exercise is good for us and will maximize both our quantity and quality of life.   Your argument is similar to one of them claiming that obesity and lack of exercise are not a factor because they haven't experienced any personal consequences.   No one is saying that everyone operating while mobile is going to die.   We are saying that the scientific research indicates that driving ability is impaired.  You don't need your A game every moment that you are driving, but you don't know when not having it will become a factor.

And spare me the thinly veiled "Eric is a superhuman who is not subject to these distractions like these other dweebs".

Dennis
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N2RRA
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« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2012, 12:45:41 PM »

"And spare me the thinly veiled "Eric is a superhuman who is not subject to these distractions like these other dweebs"."

Holy crap! You got something right and really hit the bullseye. LOL!

Go ahead and ban ham radios from cars. Good Luck!
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K1CJS
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« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2012, 05:28:57 AM »

Irrational? Me?

I'm not the one that can't think rationally. Seems like you two characters can't seem to grasp the concept that the cause of accidents are due to human era like everything else. Here's a couple!....

Hey pal, I'm not implying anything about you--I was just commenting on the sarcasm that Dennis posted.  AAMOF, I agree that the cause of most accidents IS human ERROR.  See that?  Speaking of 'accidental' errors--you just made one!    Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 05:31:12 AM by K1CJS » Logged
N2RRA
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« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2012, 06:03:06 AM »

Irrational? Me?

I'm not the one that can't think rationally. Seems like you two characters can't seem to grasp the concept that the cause of accidents are due to human era like everything else. Here's a couple!....

Hey pal, I'm not implying anything about you--I was just commenting on the sarcasm that Dennis posted.  AAMOF, I agree that the cause of most accidents IS human ERROR.  See that?  Speaking of 'accidental' errors--you just made one!    Roll Eyes

Ah! No! You made the error, pal!

I was referring to Dennis's comment. Re-read his post. See!  Tongue
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