Dave Made Amps ??

[K7PEH]

I ran across a Youtube video talking about Dave Made amplifiers.  Now, I have heard of these before but never really paid any attention.  The ad on this Youtube video called it a 16 Pill 6400 watt amplifier.  Now, what does "16 Pill" mean?  Never heard that before (but, I admit to being somewhat ignorant of some of the jargon).

Also, who is he kidding?  6400 watts for a mobile rig (that is how it was described).  What kind of watts are those?  I am thinking that a 12 volt battery would demand at least 600 amps for the input power to deliver 6400 watts -- realistically much more then that.

So, what does 16 Pill mean anyway?

[K8AC]

Here's a good place to ask that question: http://www.cbradioforum.com/

You did know that those are CB amps, right?

[K7PEH]

Yes, I knew they were CB amps.  That is why I always (previously) ignored anything about them.  But, the 16 Pill thing raised my curiosity -- it seems like a funny thing to say about an amplifier.  Actually, I went to the Dave Made web site and I saw a lot of terms I had not heard of before.

[N3OX]

Pill is CB slang for transistor... you gotta admit some of 'em look like Tylenol:

http://www.rfparts.com/transistors/2SC2879-2SC2879A%20comparison.jpg

The gold sticky-out-bits are rough on the digestive tract tho.

[K7PEH]

So, that means that my Icom PW-1 is an 8 Pill amplifier.  I have 8 pills in that thing -- each one is an MRF150.  Now, this amps produces 1000 watts so if I had twice as many pills then I would have 2000 watts (sort of a guess).  So, the Icom  PW-1 design of a 16 pill amp would yield around 2000 watts.  Only one third the power of the Dave Made 16 pill amplifier.  Of course, he could be using more fortified pills.  But, then again, everything about the Dave Made ad seems contradictory.  Like his price for the 6400 watt 16 pill amplifier was only around $1200 or something like that.  I would expect that a 6400 watt amplifier, if truly made with good engineering and honest measure of its capabilities would be on the order of $6000 minimum -- maybe more like $12000 minimum probably.

[AH6RR]

That's 6400 chicken band watts. The truth be known it is more like 1800W because almost all of his amps are made with the 2SC2879 and if you read his home page the 16 pill with 20VDC on the transistors it is now get this 6.4KW PEP on a Bird watt meter in the peak reading mode YEA RIGHT. Thats 400 watts per transistor. I guess my kenwood TS-850 is really a 800W pep radio since it has 2 2sc2879 transistors in the finals Yee Haw I dont need no stinking amp I just need to run it on 20VDC. At 15V it runs 3.2KW so thats 225W per transistor Crap my 850 is really only a 450W pep radio. Man I must have gone to the wrong math class the spec sheet for the 2sc2879 says it is a 100W device. Chicken Banders will believe anything "Say good buddy want to buy a Rolex?"

Roland AH6RR 

[KP4UFO]

before you talk,   you need to take the 11 meters class  about power.  learn......... then talk.........................   ( free band )

[VE7RF]

That's 6400 chicken band watts. The truth be known it is more like 1800W because almost all of his amps are made with the 2SC2879 and if you read his home page the 16 pill with 20VDC on the transistors it is now get this 6.4KW PEP on a Bird watt meter in the peak reading mode YEA RIGHT. Thats 400 watts per transistor. I guess my kenwood TS-850 is really a 800W pep radio since it has 2 2sc2879 transistors in the finals Yee Haw I dont need no stinking amp I just need to run it on 20VDC. At 15V it runs 3.2KW so thats 225W per transistor Crap my 850 is really only a 450W pep radio. Man I must have gone to the wrong math class the spec sheet for the 2sc2879 says it is a 100W device. Chicken Banders will believe anything "Say good buddy want to buy a Rolex?"

Roland AH6RR 

##  I don't think any of the dave made 11m amps, nor most of the other 11m ss amps  include a LP filter either. Without any LP filter, the pep out will be a lot higher, like 40% more.

Later... Jim  VE7RF

[AD4U]

Way back in the dark ages some manufacturers rated their amps for IPP (instantaneous peak power).  Do not confuse that with PEP ratings.  IPP meant that the amp could produce that power for an instant - like a single sonar "ping" that lasted a couple of micro-seconds.  It really meant nothing, but to those who did not understand the terminology, it sounded like getting a lot of bang for the buck.

Dick  AD4U

[KA5N]

   "If ignorance was bliss, then most of us would be blistered."   (famous ham)



Allen

[K1ZJH]

Way back in the dark ages some manufacturers rated their amps for IPP (instantaneous peak power).  Do not confuse that with PEP ratings.  IPP meant that the amp could produce that power for an instant - like a single sonar "ping" that lasted a couple of micro-seconds.  It really meant nothing, but to those who did not understand the terminology, it sounded like getting a lot of bang for the buck.

Dick  AD4U

Many manufacturers are still confusing PEP (initial average power for a brief sample period) with peak power which probably
relates to the peak voltage of the AC crest.  RM Italy is a good example of a company that always claims PEP is double
the average power reading.

[N6AJR]

Had a fellow who used to work for me, quite a few years back, that ran an honest 15000 watts mobile.  he was a ham and cber too.  the 15,000 watts were on 11 meters.  he had a bronco type vehicle.  he had 4 or 5  200 amp alternators, and several 120 volt alternators as well.  he had custom made brackets to hold all this crap under the hoof.  the back of the vehicle had  a bucket full of 12 v truck batteries,  he ran a solid  alminuminumimun antenna on the center of his roof.  they did " shoot outs, some kind of competition for who made the most power.. I don't know how many "pills" his amp had, but he could drive by the office and flicker the florescent lights in the building.  I be live he may have been making several watts, ( perhaps even the 15000 watts he claimed, and the competition was a short high power  blast so he probably drew 600 amps or more from the heavy duty truck batteries.  What a terrible waste of an obviously talented  ham wasting his efforts on a cb radio.

[WD8T]

before you talk,   you need to take the 11 meters class  about power.  learn......... then talk.........................   ( free band )

Care to translate this into English for us?  Thanks!

[K7PEH]

Had a fellow who used to work for me, quite a few years back, that ran an honest 15000 watts mobile.  he was a ham and cber too.  the 15,000 watts were on 11 meters.  he had a bronco type vehicle.  he had 4 or 5  200 amp alternators, and several 120 volt alternators as well.  he had custom made brackets to hold all this crap under the hoof.  the back of the vehicle had  a bucket full of 12 v truck batteries,  he ran a solid  alminuminumimun antenna on the center of his roof.  they did " shoot outs, some kind of competition for who made the most power.. I don't know how many "pills" his amp had, but he could drive by the office and flicker the florescent lights in the building.  I be live he may have been making several watts, ( perhaps even the 15000 watts he claimed, and the competition was a short high power  blast so he probably drew 600 amps or more from the heavy duty truck batteries.  What a terrible waste of an obviously talented  ham wasting his efforts on a cb radio.

As they say, "Do the math" ---

Assuming a solid-state (with pills) amplifier of maybe 60 percent efficiency, RF output of 15,000 watts would demand power input of roughly 25,000 watts.  25,000 watts is equal to about 33 1/2 H.P.  so a good amount of the motor's power is devoted to transmitting RF.  Also, 25,000 watts at 12 volts (roughly) is about 2000+ amps!  I suppose the wiring cable necessary to carry 2000 amps would probably add enough weight to require even more of a H.P. load on the vehicles motor.

If 15,000 of RF is being produced with input power demands of 25,000 watts then that is roughly 10,000 watts turning into heat that you must remove.  My guess is that the cooling arrangement for this amp would have been interesting or it was one hot ride.

Can it be done?  Sure, given enough money and other physical resources, but I am a skeptic as to whether this mobile amp could really produce 15,000 watts.

[KB1GTX]

You guys are thinking in sign waves, where as a dave made thinks in square wave clicks!
!,,And that click is 25 amps for that transistor at 20 volts and a conduction cycle of much less than 180 degree cycle.

They not only drive these to severe clipping the driving sorce is clipping and the audio is clipping too.