Before I accidentally blow something up! :)

[N9ZHW]

Please don't chew at me because I have a question related to CB    I can't find any useful help in those boards.
How high can a Uniden 520 be turned up modulation and/or carrier-wise without sizzling the radio? Someone had one turned up to.....I think it was like 6 or 7 watts (yes, I know. But who out there IS running a totally by the book, absolutely no adjustments made, pure stock CB anymore?) I tried turning the one I had up even more than my ....AHEM!...informant did, (I think I was getting like 8 or 10 watts) and suddenly after about 3 days seen the power output needle indicator on my SWR meter hooked to it drop like a stone!
I've been told that an increase in power by only 2 or 3 or 4 watts won't do anything practical as far as more gain and that you need an antenna with many elements to do that. For some reason though, before I had turned up the power, people couldn't hardly hear me even 10 miles away very well, but after I had it turned up even a few watts (this is before I turned it up more and sizzled it), people were hearing me about 15 or 20 miles away. Could it be the radio was only set at 2 or 3 watts originally? I thought all CB's were set at 4 watts stock...?
How high COULD I go on a 520 safely -just out of curiosity?

[WA3SKN]

I do not know the Uniden 520.
However, I do know I would not risk my amateur license and my General radiotelephone license by making illegal modifications.  Most AM CB sets are fine right out of the box.  If you have a problem, check propagation and antennas... height makes a difference here.  And solar flares have been active lately.  If you want more power, go with SSB CB.  AM sets supply about 1 watt SSB power, compared to SSB-CB that has 12 watts output!
73s.

-Mike.

[AC5UP]

Please don't chew at me because I have a question related to CB  

Request Denied because you're starting with a faulty premise... You didn't ACCIDENTALLY blow anything up the last time around.

You decided the Part 97 rules don't apply to you because you're "special" and it was ohhhh-kayyy for you to diddle your Charlie Brown rig. If I was in a nasty mood today I'd say something like too stupid to follow the rules and too stupid to use a screwdriver... No surprise there, but if you're looking for someone to approve your hacking another CB I'm not the dude you're looking for.

and suddenly after about 3 days seen the power output needle indicator on my SWR meter hooked to it drop like a stone!

That's what happens when the PA transistor joins the choir of the silent.

I've been told that an increase in power by only 2 or 3 or 4 watts won't do anything practical as far as more gain and that you need an antenna with many elements to do that.

You were told correctly. Perceptible gains in signal strength are non-linear, meaning a jump from 4 watts to 8 watts does not make your signal twice as loud or go twice as far. In ballpark numbers doubling the power out adds 1/2 of an S-Unit or 3 dB to your signal. Look up the derivation of the Decibel scale by Alexander Graham and your pals at AT&T and you'll discover that 3 dB the least change the average person can detect by ear when listening to music or voice reproduction. Radio isn't much different and a decent receiver can ride gain on 20 to 30 dB changes in signal strength without getting all hot & sweaty. Those are ratios of 100:1 and 1000:1 respectively.

Do you think a 2:1 change is going to amount to more than a gnat fart on 19 when there are 38 signals from Bubbaland trying to talk over each other?

How high COULD I go on a 520 safely -just out of curiosity?

Five watts is a 20% increase over four watts... How much margin do you think Uniden builds into a CB, especially if you're dumb enough to go out and buy another cee-bee after you've hosed the one that was working OK?

Plain truth is that clipping the ALC circuit and cranking up the final does nothing but make your signal splatter and sound like crap.

Which is exactly what morons tend to do.     (*)

* Edited by request.

[N6AJR]

OK here is something for lots of folks to try. 

get a friend  on the air  ( in the ham bands) and have them call you with 100 watts.  now try it  with ten watts, and then with QRO power like 500  or 1000 or even legal limit.  You will see how little  the signal really changes as you change power.  now have him call you on 10 m ssb at 4 or 5 watts and then turn it up to 8 watts, I dare say you will not hear any difference.  This is an easy way to see just   how much extra power really helps and how much it takes to really hear a difference.

I started my radio  as a CB operator, ( back in the day when it was a pretty civilized place to play , early 23 channel days) and you need to follow the rules no matter what folks are doing around you. And most of all have fun!!

[K7KBN]

I don't mean to start a war here, but if you're not going to offer help or answer questions with helpful information, to put it bluntly, keep your mouth shut and don't tear others down.

If the above isn't helpful, then you don't need any help.  Sounds like the truth is a bit more than you can bear.  There are a lot of CB forums where you can get all sorts of quality information about your subject.

[W7ETA]

“But who out there IS running a totally by the book, absolutely no adjustments made, pure stock CB anymore?”

Dunno.  You'd have to ask someone involved in CB.

“How high COULD I go on a 520 safely -just out of curiosity?”

Dunno.  You'd have to ask someone who plays around with 520s.

“Could it be the radio was only set at 2 or 3 watts originally?”

Not likely.

Maybe there is more going on than CB mythology encompasses?

73
Bob

[K6AER]

"get a friend  on the air  ( in the ham bands) and have them call you with 100 watts.  now try it  with ten watts, and then with QRO power like 500  or 1000 or even legal limit.  You will see how little  the signal really changes as you change power."

If you vary your output power by 10 dB and their meter doesn't move the S meter is broken. When your signal is close to the receive noise floor that is a big difference to increase the signal by ten dB.

[KA5N]

How high can a Uniden 520 be turned up modulation and/or carrier-wise without sizzling the radio?

I love the smell of a CB sizzling in the morning.

Allen

[AC5UP]

At least my mouth is decent here! Look, I don't mean to start a war here, but if you're not going to offer help or answer questions with helpful information, to put it bluntly, keep your mouth shut and don't tear others down.

So........... Help me understand this............ You broke Part 97 by running modified gear that was no longer type-accepted nor met the power limitations of the 27 MHz band. Now you're asking licensed amateurs to help you violate Part 97 again by advising on just how far a Uniden 520 CB can be pushed because your brain-dead buds in Bubbaland weren't helpful enough?

Dude, you are totally in the wrong place asking the wrong people the wrong question.

[KB4QAA]

I'll say it nicely.  Everything you have been told above is true.

-Doubling or tripling your power gives relatively small improvement in performance.  Antennas, are where the big gains are made.

-Your experience in increased range is probably due to variation propagation

-I doubt most people with CB's tinker with them, since most people have no knowledge or interest in electronics and don't want to screw up their radios.

-There are regulations for CB radio.  Whether others abide by them or not is immaterial.  You as a ham have more to lose by violating FCC regulations, even on this unlicensed band.  Hams have a strong tradition of following regulations, and technical excellence.  You are doing neither.

-The CB band is cookie cutter equipment with limited range.  The ham bands are where you may do your experimenting, again within regs.

Do the right thing.   Bill

[W8MW]

I for one am very proud of my fellow amateurs in the congenial and helpful way you have responded to N9ZHW.  Every poster has done well here.  BTW, for CB it's Part 95 not 97.
 

[AD6KA]

KB4QAA:

Antennas, are where the big gains are made.

There it is in a nutshell (besides not hopping
on the radio with the proverbial "Golden Srewdriver". 

Ken  AD6KA

[N9ZHW]

-There are regulations for CB radio.  Whether others abide by them or not is immaterial.  You as a ham have more to lose by violating FCC regulations, even on this unlicensed band.  Hams have a strong tradition of following regulations, and technical excellence.  You are doing neither.
   Bill

Ahhh, about the only thing Uncle Charlie is going to do anything about as far as CB violations is if you're interfering intentionally with emergency communications or are using so much power or have your radio so far out of whack you're interfering with commercial stations, EMS/police/plane transmissions (of which I've seen and heard of happening.) You REALLY think they're going to waste time and taxpayer $ running around tracking down and giving citations to every Tom Dick and Harry who has 5+ watts coming out of their CB or running a small 50 or 100 watt amplifier, or run around saying to everyone "let me see your CB to make sure it hasn't been altered inside"? Trust me, they won't -unless they're called to investigate a major case (such as mentioned above) and JUST HAPPEN to spot something. People I know have written in about "pee wee" violations and have been told "Don't look for anything within the next 30 years" -in not so many words. (By the way, they even ignore complaints of people messing around on Ch. 9 -unless again, they've repeatedly interfered with emergency communications- and even then the worst I've seen happen is a "threat" to get the local police involved, and all they can legally do (unless they cost someone their life hampering emergency personnel) is issue a ticket for, at the worst, disorderly conduct, which probably wouldn't stand up in court alone anyway.) There is such a thing as discretion which people don't seem to use much of anymore today. Getting upset for someone having a CB turned up to 5 watts, is the same as getting upset at someone for having a bathtub in their house (which, yes, IS actually illegal according to a law in Wis. passed in the 1800's never repealed so technically is still of legal enforcement.) My point there being some things are just not worth getting up in arms about and that people aren't going to waste time with.

[KB1GTX]

 a Uniden 520 be turned up modulation and/or carrier-wise without sizzling the radio? Someone had one turned up to...... For some reason though, before I had turned up the power, people couldn't hardly hear me even 10 miles away very well, but after I had it turned up even a few watts (this is before I turned it up more and sizzled it), people were hearing me about 15 or 20 miles away. Could it be the radio was only set at 2 or 3 watts originally? I thought all CB's were set at 4 watts stock...?
How high COULD I go on a 520 safely -just out of curiosity?

I've see a 4 watt "cb" out range a 100 watt ham set, so whats the differance of the two?.. seem to be the trolling question here.

[AC5UP]

BTW, for CB it's Part 95 not 97.

Sure is... Force of habit. Anyway, let's see what's in good ol' Part 95, Subpart D:

Subpart D--Citizens Band (CB) Radio Service
 
Sec. 95.409  (CB Rule 9) What equipment may I use at my CB station?

(a) You must use an FCC certificated CB transmitter at your CB station. You can identify an FCC certificated transmitter by the certification label placed on it by the manufacturer. You may examine a list of certificated equipment at any FCC Field Office or at FCC Headquarters. Use of a transmitter which is not FCC certificated voids your authority to operate the station.   
(b) You must not make, or have made, any internal modification to a certificated CB transmitter. (See CB Rule 25, Sec. 95.425). Any internal modification to a certificated CB transmitter cancels the certification, and use of such a transmitter voids your authority to operate the station.

[48 FR 24894, June 3, 1983, as amended at 63 FR 36610, July 7, 1998]

Sec. 95.410  (CB Rule 10) How much power may I use?

(a) Your CB station transmitter power output must not exceed the following values under any conditions:  AM (A3)--4 watts (carrier power) SSB--12 watts (peak envelope power)
(b) If you need more information about the power rule, see the technical rules in subpart E of part 95.   
(c) Use of a transmitter which has carrier or peak envelope power in excess of that authorized voids your authority to operate the station.

Seems clear enough to me...................