First HF Rig

[AK4SK]

I'm looking to get my first HF rig (OK, really MF, VHF, and UHF also) and I am in need of advise. I know my question doesn't score any points for originality but I hope to make up for it below. Now to the point. First off, I like Yaesu (for some reason I can't articulate at the moment) and I am looking at 3 of their portable HF radios: FT-817ND, FT-857D, and FT-897D. For all I know it isn't fair to choose between those 3 but let me explain. I like the idea of QRP operation and I think that I will learn a lot more about antennas and the like if my first radio is a low power model. I would just choose the FT-817ND and be done with it but I have the following concerns. First, I see that people add all kinds of accessories to radios such as filters, DSPs, etc. Would one of the higher models such as the FT-857D or FT-897D have some of the stuff I would end up buying for the FT-817ND already included? I'd hate to pay $600 for a radio only to find out that I need to add $500 in accessories to do what I want to do when it would have been better if I would have purchased a $1000 radio to begin with. Second, I'll probably do a little of everything with whatever I get, SSB, CW, digital, and FM repeater work on VHF and UHF. All of the 3 listed radios have specifications that suggest they are equally capable in this regard. Is there something that I'm missing because I'm a novice and haven't learned how to read between the lines? Are they equally capable, transmit power differences notwithstanding? Third, what else am I not considering? I'm still learning what to look for and what questions to ask.

Thanks for the help.

[N4NYY]

I used the 897 on a contest and thought it was a pain in the ass. I did not like the overall feel of it. I thought menu access was difficult. There was no manual on site when I used it.

I used the 857 on Field Day, and like the overall feel. I cannot recall the menu access ease. If it is interfaced with a computer, this is a moot point.

The 817 has the advantage of going under 5W for QRP. However, when you are not in a good sunspot period, you will likely need all 100W. That is a disadvantage.

If going under 5W is not critical for your QRP, I would go with the 857 as a best compromise.

[AK4SK]

Thanks for that insight.

[AK4SK]

Other than ease of use between the 3 and transmit power is that it?

[AC4RD]

I used the 897 on a contest and thought it was a pain in the ass. I did not like the overall feel of it. I thought menu access was difficult. There was no manual on site when I used it.

As the Roman hams said:  "De gustibus non disputandem."  I bought an 897 last summer to use for portable operating, and I *love* the thing.  It isn't the greatest performer in the world, but I really like the feel, the controls, and so on.  It's like a Victorinox "Swiss Army knife," so many nice features in such a sturdy well-made package.   N4NYY used the same radio and disliked it--everybody has different tastes.

What I'd suggest, though, is that you look for a local ham-radio club, or even just other hams.  (You can do a ZIP code search, for hams near you, if there isn't a local club.)  Talk to some of the other hams in your area, see what they like, and maybe even get invited over to try their rigs.  And DEFINITELY sign up for Field Day if you have a FD group near you.   Everybody has different tastes, and if you buy one without trying it, you might not like it.  You might like it at first and change your mind when you've been operating for a while.   :-)  But the more hands-on sort of experience you can get, the better off you'll be when you're buying a rig!   

73  --ken ac4rd

[K8GU]

I don't recommend QRP rigs as first HF rigs.  Unless you are so dedicated to the idea of QRP that you'll do nothing else, you should have the opportunity to try HF with 100 watts even if you never end up using it. 

Aside from that advice, nearly any HF radio produced by Yaesu, Kenwood, Icom, or Ten-Tec, in the past 20 to 30 years will be fine for a beginner if it has been well-cared for and not hot-rodded.  The best thing to, like AC4RD said, is to go try some of them out.

[N4NYY]

As the Roman hams said:  "De gustibus non disputandem."  I bought an 897 last summer to use for portable operating, and I *love* the thing.  It isn't the greatest performer in the world, but I really like the feel, the controls, and so on.  It's like a Victorinox "Swiss Army knife," so many nice features in such a sturdy well-made package.   N4NYY used the same radio and disliked it--everybody has different tastes.

The lack of a manual onsite, probably did not help. And he did not have it connected to a computer to access filters and such, and that did not help. It might very well be a fine rig. I just did not like it that night.

[WB2WIK]

You're not that far from a place where you can try these rigs out to see what you like.

I wouldn't buy a new car based on a brochure, nor a new rig, either.

AES has a store in Orlando with these rigs on display.

[WB6BYU]

Even though I operate mostly QRP, I also don't recommend a QRP rig for beginners if that is their
only option.  Any well-designed HF rig can be turned down to 5 watts or less output, so you still
have the ability to operate QRP with a 100W radio.  (I've used my TS-450 this way for years.)
But you also have higher power available when you have a less-than-optimum antenna, or when
conditions are bad.  

As a Novice I filled many pages of my logbook with unanswered calls (which we had to log at
the time) and it probably took me 6 months to make my first 10 contacts.  This was due to the
antenna not loading the transmitter properly, so I was probably running 25 watts input and less
than 2 watts output to a compromise antenna. It is very easy to get discouraged with the hobby
in such a situation, which is why I don't recommend it for beginners, unless you have a good
Elmer handy to help diagnose such problems.


I also recommend trying out the different types of radios if you can - ask around local club
members, visit a local Ham store if you can, etc.  See how the radios feel to you - are your
fingers too big for the buttons?  Do the controls turn easily?  Can you see the display while
turning the control knobs?  Does the audio sound OK to your ears, or is there an annoying
background whine or rumble?   These are the types of issues that make a radio a pleasure
to use - or not.

[KJ4FUU]

Other than ease of use between the 3 and transmit power is that it?

I have an FT-817ND. When I bought mine, here were the differences:

897 - 100W, comes with DSP and TXCO

857 - 100W, comes with DSP

817 - 5W, TXCO available as an option, and while aftermarket DSP exists, nothing from Yaesu itself.

The 857 looks like it is mainly designed for mobile use. The 897 can be used as a base station, or
run off of a battery pack.

With my 817, I bought the TXCO, and a 300hz filter. BTW, if you didn't know TXCO is temperature
controlled crystal oscillator.

I did work HK0NA on 20m SSB with my 817. Keep in mind that my signal report was a 51.

73,

-- Tom

[AK4SK]

Thanks for all of the info, advice, and explanations. I like the idea of having more power available if I need it. I was given some advice that a lot of new hams don't learn a lot about antennas and the like because the easy solution (so I am told) is just to throw more power at the problem. That, the challenge, and the price were mainly why I was considering the 817. Are DSP and TXCO nice to have, must have, or it depends? It looks like a 897 is actually less (looking at new prices) than what a 817 would be with TXCO and DSP added.

[N6AJR]

The  FT 897 is basicall  the same radio as the FT 857 and the ft 817.  they have different cases and accessories, bu the main radio is about the same, one adds 100 watts and one adds a built in battery. 

I reccommend the FT 857 also.  you can use it in the shack for a while and it does 2m/440/ 6m and 10- 160 m all in one box.  If you want to take it camping use a couple of small batteries and turn down the power, but use it in the shack and when you decide on a "real" shack radio, the ft 857 can move to the car.  I have one in my car and it works well.  it also autotunes with an ATAS 120 antenna so for mobile it is convenient. The ATAS is not the most efficient antenna in the world, ( it works from 2m/440/6m and 10-40 m) but it is convenient.  so my best shot is the ft 857d,

Alinco makes a dx 70 and icom has a 706Mk II G but I prefer the ft 857. gud luck, and have fun

[K5LXP]

I was given some advice that a lot of new hams don't learn a lot about antennas and the like because the easy solution (so I am told) is just to throw more power at the problem.

That's kind of a misnomer, because power can only make up so much for a crappy antenna.  And it tends to be a self solving problem anyway, because power won't help the crappy receive.

Are DSP and TXCO nice to have, must have, or it depends?

Pretty sure the 857 comes with AF DSP standard.  You can probably get away with the stock SSB filter but if you have any intention of working CW, you're going to want a narrow filter.

TCXO is only a hard requirement if you run 60M, or care for better stability on 2M or 440.  I would hold off on this and add it later if you need it.

It looks like a 897 is actually less (looking at new prices) than what a 817 would be with TXCO and DSP added.

I agree, by the time you load up an 817 you're right up there with 857 prices and I don't think the 817 offers enough with it's smaller form factor to justify the cost.  That's just me though, many folks like them.  The 817 I would consider to be a very application specific radio, the application being SSB QRP carry-in portable operating.   If your definition of portable is going somewhere in a car out to a field/woods somewhere, then just get the 857 and dial your power wherever you want.  The issue you run into on SSB is you tend to need fairly efficient antennas to compete with anyone running 100W (which is most folks), and fairly efficient antennas don't tend to be terribly portable.  Hence, most dedicated QRP'ers usually operate CW. 

I ran QRP SSB during the 10M contest last December and even with a tribander on a tower I had a tough go of it.  Ended up "resorting" to CW so I could actually get a decent number of contacts in the log.  I consider SSB to be a QRO mode unless necessary, hence my reluctance to accept something like an 817 for anything other than when you need the most portable SSB QRP rig.  If you're running SSB pedestrian mobile or with compromise antennas, you're going to be mighty frustrated locked into QRP.


Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM

[W7ETA]

While many hams have TONS! of FUN on VHF and UHF I've stayed with HF.  It might be because I started on HF and devoted just about all of my "playin radio" funds to improving my HF station.  For me, funds into VHF and or UHF was funds better spent on improving my HF station.

At one time I had a mobile 2 meter rig, DC power supply so that I could use it in my house, and a 12 element beam and rotator.  I also had an 2 meter HT.

They were fun for a while because they were new play toys, in a short while I sold the mobile rig and kept the HT for occasional use.  The occasional use turned into using it on a packet cluster that a contest club in New England set up for spotting DX,

Once internet sites with DX spotting started my HT went into a closet.

Since I rapidly became board with VHF and UHF I suggest you consider valuing rigs with better performance on HF more than rigs with HF, VHF and UHF, even to the point of choosing a first rig without VHF and UHF.

While having a good performing rig is important, remember that to enjoy it you need a good "stiff" power supply--one that easily provides enough current for 100 watt HF rigs.  Plus, you need an antenna, or antennas so that you can get on the air and enjoy your rig.

My first station was an entry level rig, a hand me down straight key, SWR/watt meter, an antenna switch box, coax, a trap inverted Vee for 40 and 80 that I could also use on 15 and an omnidirectional CB antenna that I used on 10 meters.

I had TONS!!! of FUN.

I didn't own a home, so when I rented a house I was limited to wire antennas.  When I moved to another place it had quite a few trees near the house.  I made wire ground plane antennas for 15, 20, and 40 meters.  I pulled each of those antennas up into different trees.  Those antennas, along with my inverted 40/80 meter inverted Vee and my CB ground plane, got me onto every HF band at the time with the exception of 160.

My first rig, along with every rig I've owned, could run as low as 5 watts, but I was having FUN with my rigs' max output of 90-100 watts.  In fact, the next upgrade to my station was a modest used HF amplifier.  My guess is that I would have become very frustrated if I had started out with a QRP rig, simply because I wanted to be able to make contacts.  Making contacts with 100 watts, when many of the stations I tried to contact were 800-1500 watts, was challenging at the time.

Congrats on getting your General ticket.

My Very Best from Tucson AZ
Bob

[W5ESE]

If it was me (and it isn't  ), I wouldn't try to make one radio
accomplish all the things that you are trying to do.

For portable, battery powered operation, none of these radios
really does that very well, even the FT-817D. The reason is that
it pulls over 300 mA when it is just sitting squelched, which is
quite a lot of current.

There are some QRP radios available, such as the Wilderness
Radio, Elecraft and Small Wonder Labs radios, that draw less
than 30 mA when receiving; a factor-of-10 improvement.

Then you could purchase your main station radio without having
to make any compromises to accomodate portable operating,
and use something totally different for your portable operations.