Don't you just love it when.....

[NU4B]

...... somebody spots a station (such as T88ZO) as "super strong and simplex"...... and the DX station decides to operate split. That doesn't stop those that get their information from the spotting clusters rather than from the DX station from calling on frequency. Then the fact that the station calls a particular station doesn't stop them from calling (as usual)  - on the DX transmit frequency.

Here's a tip:  LISTEN   

Its scarey when you see a station spotted with "UP" as part of the call. EX - "ZK2CUP". You really get an idea of what we're dealing with at that point.

I guess I shouldn't complain since I've been the beneficiary many times when these fools continue to call on frequency and only those that were listening and figured out the station was working split actually made a contact.

Rant for the day - since I already have T8, it was sort of humerus (in a sad kind of way). 

[AB3CX]

I would make an appropriate response to your thread but I didn't take the time to read it... :

[K3TN]

Another annoying thing has become more common, I blame it on CW decoders:

ZK2C: WA3ABC 5NN
(nothing for 400 ms)
Simulateously: ZK2C: WA3ABC 5NN and WA3ABC: TU 5NN
(dead air, repeat until other stations start throwing in their calls)

The messy global cluster caused a lot of call dumping before listening, but this particular delayed response  I'm thinking is tied to much more use of CW decoders.

John K3TN

[AF3Y]

Another annoying thing has become more common, I blame it on CW decoders:

ZK2C: WA3ABC 5NN
(nothing for 400 ms)
Simulateously: ZK2C: WA3ABC 5NN and WA3ABC: TU 5NN
(dead air, repeat until other stations start throwing in their calls)

The messy global cluster caused a lot of call dumping before listening, but this particular delayed response  I'm thinking is tied to much more use of CW decoders.

John K3TN

John, you could be right, but...... There has been a time or two where the DX may have to call me twice because of QRM from tuners, callers etc.  If I dont hear the DX call me quite clearly enough, I wont reply, or either I will give my call again. Nothing worse than a dang busted call . And, there is always the chance of the op snoozing after calling for an hour or two and having to be awaken by the DX. hi hi (Not that I have ever done such a thing!) 73, Gene AF3Y

[NU4B]

I would make an appropriate response to your thread but I didn't take the time to read it... :

Hmmmm.... the perfect response   

[W2RI]

Sometimes mere listening isn't enough - or, at least, listening for only a few minutes isn't.

Several weeks ago I stopped in my truck and scanned the band. I came across a DXpedition - and heard him, in fairly quick succession, work 3 or 4 stations. He followed each QSO by his call. Now since I was in my truck, with a less than optimal antenna, it was reasonable for me to assume that he could hear and work those 3 or 4 callers without my hearing them. Because the DX didn't announce "UP", I assumed he was simplex and made two calls before someone pointed out to me that he was, indeed, up...

Now, okay, perhaps I should have *assumed* that he was split - but I had listened for 3 or 4 QSOs. Suppose he had in fact been simplex, and I had started scanning up the band to try to find a pile-up, I wouldn't have found it and wasted time - time that could have led to someone spotting him and initiating a massive pile-up that I probably couldn't hope to break from my truck.

If the DX doesn't announced UP after every QSO - or at least every other QSO - then one can argue it's not the fault of the Dxer who calls him simplex.

[WW3QB]

Sometimes mere listening isn't enough - or, at least, listening for only a few minutes isn't.

Several weeks ago I stopped in my truck and scanned the band. I came across a DXpedition - and heard him, in fairly quick succession, work 3 or 4 stations. He followed each QSO by his call. Now since I was in my truck, with a less than optimal antenna, it was reasonable for me to assume that he could hear and work those 3 or 4 callers without my hearing them. Because the DX didn't announce "UP", I assumed he was simplex and made two calls before someone pointed out to me that he was, indeed, up...

Now, okay, perhaps I should have *assumed* that he was split - but I had listened for 3 or 4 QSOs. Suppose he had in fact been simplex, and I had started scanning up the band to try to find a pile-up, I wouldn't have found it and wasted time - time that could have led to someone spotting him and initiating a massive pile-up that I probably couldn't hope to break from my truck.

If the DX doesn't announced UP after every QSO - or at least every other QSO - then one can argue it's not the fault of the Dxer who calls him simplex.

Completely disagree. A DXpedition is nearly always spilt. If you had "wasted time" and tuned around you would have figured out that it was split. So you possibly clobbered the DX station and woke up the DX cops. Bad news. All the DX advice here has been “listen, listen, listen” but you did not want to “waste time”. It’s not hard to figure out. Take the time to know what is going on before you annoy hundreds of other hams trying to hear the DX.

To work DX, and achieve DXCC, you always have to figure out where the DX is listening. Otherwise, even if you are working split, you can spend a very long time in a pileup.

[AF3Y]

I always assume (ESPECIALLY WHEN I DONT HEAR ANYONE CALLING)that MOST DX, expecially expeditions, are working split.  First thing to do, which you did not even try..... Is try to locate where the DX is listening.  Obviously, you know this, but you did not even try it. It does not take that long to find a pileup.

I got growled at on this forum for saying most DX stations work split, but I stick by my thoughts and experience on that one.   Gene AF3Y

[W9KDX]

It is always a problem for me when they don't say how much up.  Last night I was following a station in Belize; he always ended a QSL with his call/u5.  Worked well as I heard none of the other callers due to odd propagation. 

The worst pileups are the ones where I have to wait 5-10 minutes to get the call from the DX station.  Add this to an odd up frequency and life gets really interesting.  When the pileup is huge it is really hard to figure out the station is 7 up, as a few have been.

[W2RI]

I always assume (ESPECIALLY WHEN I DONT HEAR ANYONE CALLING)that MOST DX, expecially expeditions, are working split.  First thing to do, which you did not even try..... Is try to locate where the DX is listening.  Obviously, you know this, but you did not even try it. It does not take that long to find a pileup.

I got growled at on this forum for saying most DX stations work split, but I stick by my thoughts and experience on that one.   Gene AF3Y

Come on. Are you trying to tell me that when you hear DX you never think - "Oh, he's not announcing 'up' so he's simplex; maybe he hasn't been spotted yet, I'll try and work him before he gets spotted" ? No, you'll just go hunting up the band to try and find a pile-up, which you may or may not find because of spotty propagation, and which may or may not be his pile-up. I have often heard a DX station work several callers in a row that I can't hear from my mobile. You may have a great station that allows you to hear callers that I can't.

And hey, I'm admitting I did it. I know it was a mistake - that's why I posted - but I'm suggesting it wasn't entirely my fault. How hard is it for a DX, when giving his call, to say "up" ?

What is worse is the habit that some DXers have of repeatedly calling a simplex DX station, giving their call S-l-o-w-l-y, or, even worse, waiting til the clamor starts to die down as all other DXers wait for the DX to respond and then they throw their call in. Next go around other stations do the same thing and pretty soon you get a cacaphony that makes it impossible for anyone to hear the DX station - it's a continuous mess of stations calling multiple times.

I think the DXer's code of contact should state, explicitly, that DXers should "Give your call only once, and complete it within 10 seconds" of the DXer calling QRZ. 

[WW3QB]

Come on. Are you trying to tell me that when you hear DX you never think - "Oh, he's not announcing 'up' so he's simplex; maybe he hasn't been spotted yet, I'll try and work him before he gets spotted" ? No, you'll just go hunting up the band to try and find a pile-up, which you may or may not find because of spotty propagation, and which may or may not be his pile-up. I have often heard a DX station work several callers in a row that I can't hear from my mobile. You may have a great station that allows you to hear callers that I can't.

I never think that. I always assume split. NEVER CALL ON THE DX FREQUENCY UNLESS YOU ARE 100% SURE HE IS SIMPLEX.

What is worse is the habit that some DXers have of repeatedly calling a simplex DX station, giving their call S-l-o-w-l-y, or, even worse, waiting til the clamor starts to die down as all other DXers wait for the DX to respond and then they throw their call in. Next go around other stations do the same thing and pretty soon you get a cacaphony that makes it impossible for anyone to hear the DX station - it's a continuous mess of stations calling multiple times.

This is why DX stations work split. I often do not even try a DX working simplex because of this problem.

[KD6KWZ]

Its scarey when you see a station spotted with "UP" as part of the call. EX - "ZK2CUP".

That happened to me recently. I was madly searching up for a while. Oops. 

The worst pileups are the ones where I have to wait 5-10 minutes to get the call from the DX station.

Had that happen, too, just today. Found a pile up, but it took like 5 QSO's to announce he was J88DR. And, spotting services have to taken with a grain of salt.

[AF3Y]

Had that happen, too, just today. Found a pile up, but it took like 5 QSO's to announce he was J88DR. And, spotting services have to taken with a grain of salt.

WFWL...... Go ahead and work the DX if you can find where he is listening, then hang on, his call will be coming sooner than you think.

While we are on this subject, a quick tip for you guys who are obviously new to this DX game, you should also understand that "Up 5" does not usually mean UP 5, it usually means UP 5 or more. The DX wants the callers to spread out. UP 5 might mean actually 5, but probably not. (I gotta quit giving away all our secrets, huh ) Think about it, if he says UP 5, and everyone goes UP exactly 5, he is not going to run a very productive pileup.

If he simply says UP, its a good bet its 1 or more, at least to begin with when working CW.  UP when on phone is usally 5 at to begin with.  Gene AF3Y

[W6OP]

You do have to listen but the DX station shares some responsibility. I was trying to work one the other day and he was working simplex. I left for about 5 minutes and when I returned I could still hear him plus several others on his frequency. Then someone started send "up up" so I tuned up and found where the pileup was. Never did hear the DX say up in the next several minutes it took me to work him. When a DX station switches from simplex to split he needs to really make sure everyone catches it by repeating "up" after his call for several minutes at least.

Pete W6OP

[AF3Y]

Come on. Are you trying to tell me that when you hear DX you never think - "Oh, he's not announcing 'up' so he's simplex; maybe he hasn't been spotted yet, I'll try and work him before he gets spotted" ?

No, not in the past few years, after becoming accustomed to the way most DX stations operate, ESPECIALLY expeditions.

And hey, I'm admitting I did it. I know it was a mistake - that's why I posted - but I'm suggesting it wasn't entirely my fault. How hard is it for a DX, when giving his call, to say "up" ?

When he is trying to make as many QSOs as possible, he is probably not going to say UP often. He will assume that he is usually dealing with callers who figured out he was up before calling. I am sure the ones who call on the DX freq are less than 1%, as irritating as they may be.

I think the DXer's code of contact should state, explicitly, that DXers should "Give your call only once, and complete it within 10 seconds" of the DXer calling QRZ. 

Good Luck on that one....... Maybe in DX dreamland, but not in the real DX world.