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Author Topic: SWR increasing with power.  (Read 1110 times)
KC8LWG
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« on: February 16, 2012, 11:14:01 AM »

I have a ts-2000 that runs through about 4 feet of ratshack rg-8u into an ameritron 4 way remote coax switch. From the switch i have about a 60' run of LMR-400 that runs to the junction box for the switch From that junction box ive got about 25' of LMR-400 running to a homebrew air wound choke of some cheapie rg-8 (10 turns abour 6" in diameter) that is plugged into the 450 ohm feedline of my G5RV hanging at about 30'. The tuner on my ts-2000 tunes everything up fine and seems to work fine on SSB BUT I noticed that if I switch to CW and transmit for more than a couple seconds at anything over 25 watts my SWR climbs fast up to 3:1 or better and starts dropping transmitter power. Im thinking that maybe the cheapie coax choke that I made cant take the power but im not sure. Id like some feedback from some members here so I know if I have a potential problem before I find out the EXPENSIVE way.

EDIT: Maybe a thermal breakdown in the cheap air wound choke I made?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 11:41:46 AM by KC8LWG » Logged
WA3SKN
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2012, 12:16:04 PM »

What happens when you use a dummy load?

-Mike.
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KC8LWG
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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2012, 12:29:09 PM »

Unfortunately the G5RV is the closest thing I have to a dummy load here.  Grin No real way to taking the antenna out of the equation if thats what you were thinking. Hadnt really thought that it could be the antenna itself. I just assumed it would be the couple of cheap bits of coax. Like I said things SEEM to be fine on SSB where the rms power is down.
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WB6BYU
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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2012, 12:33:50 PM »

Air core choke baluns generally aren't prone to heating problems unless they are severely
overstressed.  A quick check would be to see if it feels warm after transmitting.

Do you have an external SWR meter that you can insert between the rig and the switch box?
The most likely component subject to heating is the tuner, and that would allow you to monitor
the SWR on the coax itself to see if it is increasing.  (If it isn't, then the tuner or something else
in the rig is causing the shift.)

It could also be a poor joint somewhere that is getting hot - again, feeling all the connectors
to see if one feels warmer than the others might locate the problem.

Otherwise try a different port on the remote switch and see if it changes anything.
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KC8LWG
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2012, 12:41:19 PM »

I dont have an external meter for HF either sorry to say. Its a pretty basic setup here at the moment. I have a meter for 2m/70cm but that doesnt do me any good here. I suppose I should buy a swr/power meter for HF that i can put inline. That will be my next purchase. Ill check my connections too. Maybe I should also try a few feet of better coax for the choke? What do you think?
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K7KBN
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2012, 12:49:22 PM »

The only thing that will give you an indication of "SWR increasing with increased power" is something wrong with the antenna system - which includes the antenna, feedline, connectors and everything downstream of the meter.

And you should have an external wattmeter/SWR meter if you don't already.  The built-in metering in most transceivers is really not that good.

Change ONE thing at a time while you check things out.
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73
Pat K7KBN
CWO4 USNR Ret.
KC8LWG
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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2012, 12:53:41 PM »

I dont know if this is true 100% of the time but I did just notice that while it may creep to 1.3 or 1.4 on 20m after a min on 80m it cant take it for more than a few seconds before the SWR goes up high enough to drop transmitter output. Is there really a problem here or is it just the high swr on the feedline of the G5RV thats heating up the coax changing the SWR? Im just making that up as I go along I really dont know what im talking about when it comes to antennas.
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WB6BYU
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2012, 01:15:39 PM »

None of your coax should overheat at 100 watts, with the shorts of mismatches that you
are likely to encounter with a G5RV.  (The SWR can be rather high on some bands.)
Unless, of course, it is physically damaged somehow.
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KC8LWG
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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2012, 04:31:26 PM »

Why would it do it on 80m in particular though? That has to mean something.
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KE4YOG
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2012, 05:07:21 PM »

Do you have a lightening arrest system on the coax? I had that is once and my lightening arrest system had blown the little gas thing. Were are the right words when you are looking for them? My TS2000 does not do a good job tuning my double length G5RV. I use an outboard versa tuner that, for me, works better. Check for loose coax and water in coax connections. I just toasted my MFJ-945E for the second time. It will from now on be a parts corpse.
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WB6BYU
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2012, 05:28:58 PM »

Quote from: KC8LWG
Why would it do it on 80m in particular though? That has to mean something.

The SWR varies from one band to the next with a G5RV.  High SWR means higher voltage and/or
current along the feedline for the same output power.  The voltage/current distribution also varies
with frequency.

Say that the problem is a corroded contact somewhere:  the more current through that point,
the worse the contact gets, and the SWR shifts.  (And a worse contact may mean more power
dissipated, so more heating.)  On the bands where that contact happens to be at a high
current point of a standing wave, the effect will be greatest.  On another band the current may
be lower due to a lower SWR.  Or the contact might be at a high voltage point on the standing
wave where the current is less.  Either case will cause less heating of the contact.

Similarly the stress on the tuner will depend on the impedance it is trying to match and the
frequency (or, more precisely, the range of reactances available to use to match it.)  Many
manual tuners tend to be less efficient when matching low impedances on 80m and especially
160m, because the limited maximum capacitance available forces a less efficient matching
solution, thus more heat generated in the tuner.
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WX7G
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2012, 05:48:08 PM »

With the problem occuring at just 25 watts the TS-2000 looks to be the culprit. 25 watts is not enough power to overheat any portion of your antenna system but it might overheat a component in the TS-2000 autotuner.

How to tell? Try an external antenna tuner.
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KE4YOG
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2012, 06:48:03 PM »

Both times I toasted my tuner were jaunts to the land of beverages. I always tune at 10 watts and have toasted this one twice. Oh well not paying to shipp it back.
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KC8LWG
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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2012, 03:57:20 AM »

Well I guess Ill pick up an external tuner. You guys dont think there is something wrong with the tuner in my 2000 do you? I mean it tunes everything fine and seems to work even on 80 when im only transmitting sideband. It just doesnt seem to like high duty cycles at above 25w on 80. Perhaps like has already been said, I need an external tuner that has a greater range of reactance (if im using the right term)? Im just hoping there isnt anything "wrong" with my radio other than it just wasnt intended to try to match something like a gr5v on 80 where it is not really designed to operate on effeciently.
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WA3SKN
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« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2012, 04:26:17 AM »

First get a dummy load.  Then you can intelligently trouble shoot the problem.  They are not that expensive, or you might borrow one.

-Mike.
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