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Author Topic: Rules violations on 60 meters  (Read 9375 times)
W0BTU
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« on: March 05, 2012, 07:14:04 PM »

Has anyone listened to 60 meters since the new rules went into effect less than 24 hours ago?

The violations of the FCC rules there are amazing.

And nearly constant.

Right now, there are multiple PSK31 QSOs spread out all over channel 5, and as I was typing this, I just heard JT65 (on more than one channel), both clearly not allowed.

There is also a free-for-all heated QRM session on channel 3 with CW, PSK31, and SSB stations all fighting over the channel, with arguing, personal attacks, and profanity by stations who do not identify. It sounds like a bunch of immature children fighting over a piece of candy.

And one of the PSK31 stations there is 40 over 9, and extremely distorted and wide, the worst I have ever heard from any PSK31 station that I've ever listened to. (No, it's NOT RX overload; I'll wager a trillion dollars he was running far more than 100 watts.) It very clearly was malicious interference.

On channel 1, there's two CW stations trying to call CQ over a strong SSB station that was there first. And on another channel, there's SSB stations making noise (without ID'ing) and calling CQ over a CW QSO that was there first.

Last night, I heard more stations start transmitting on the new channel 3 before we were allowed to than you or I could possibly count.

I could say a lot more. What I've mentioned above is just a sampling of what I've heard in the short time since the new rules went into effect late last night. Go listen there yourself.

Seems to me if that this sort of thing keeps up, we are in danger of losing 60 meters. (If you don't think so, then read what the FCC has stated in the Federal Register, etc.) Time for some serious OO work? If not, what?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 08:04:52 PM by W0BTU » Logged

KG4RUL
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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2012, 08:34:57 PM »

Did anyone seriously think this would NOT happen?  If so, I have some great building land in Florida, as soon as we can dry it out and get rid of the Gators.
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KI4SDY
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2012, 05:48:45 AM »

The 60 meters band has quickly turned into ham CB. This is what happens when you put channels on a ham band. I was surprised when the FCC did that, but I am not surprised at the results. So much for the theory that ham radio operators are more professional than citizen band operators.  Grin
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SWMAN
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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2012, 06:16:03 AM »

 I know for shure that the FCC will not do anything at all about this problem. They can care less about what happens there on 60. Look what they are doing about 14.313 Huh Nothing at all !!!
 But the funny thing to me is that they sent me a warning letter because I was accidently 20 kc out of band for one QSO.
What a mess.
 Jim. W5JJG
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W8JX
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2012, 11:20:38 AM »

I am not so sure about the violation here.  When you use channel for SSB you likely use 2.5khz of spectrum or so on that channel. Why is 10 or more PSK31 signals in that same spread a violation if it is in same "channel"?  Now a JT65 signal outside channel would be.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 01:33:01 PM by W8JX » Logged

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N8YX
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2012, 11:56:12 AM »

Wait until the WinLink and ALE QRMbots start claiming their "rights" to those frequencies.
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W0BTU
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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2012, 02:30:23 PM »

I am not so sure about the violation here.  When you use channel for SSB you likely use 2.5khz of spectrum or so on that channel. Why is 10 or more PSK31 signals in that same spread a violation if it is in same "channel"?  Now a JT65 signal outside channel would be.

I wish they allowed multiple PSK and CW stations on each channel, too. But that is not the way it is presently.

I studied it all but forget where to look and what the exact wording of the rules were. However, the gist of it was that the FCC wants government stations to be able to get on those channels at a moment's notice in an emergency and ask a single amateur radio operator (or a group in a QSO all on the same freq) to vacate the frequency.

I could have this wrong, but I believe that it was said that PSK or CW ops should not use their crystal filter so they could hear a government station using USB asking them to leave.

There was a lot of speculation about all this at first, but the FCC made their wishes known more recently. I think the ARRL's interpretation of the FCC's latest clear statements about this is right on.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 02:33:40 PM by W0BTU » Logged

W0BTU
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2012, 02:36:10 PM »

Wait until the WinLink and ALE QRMbots start claiming their "rights" to those frequencies.

Those are specifically prohibited on 60 meters. No automatically controlled stations are allowed. (But then, so was JT65 and RTTY, and I heard those last night.)

That is, I think RTTY is prohibited. Initially, it was said to be a mode that was going to be allowed, but I'm pretty sure it isn't.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 02:38:59 PM by W0BTU » Logged

K0OD
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« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2012, 10:36:47 AM »

Quote
The 60 meters band has quickly turned into ham CB.

That was widely predicted too when the band opened in 2003. Instead 60 became perhaps the best behaved band in the hobby with QRP, ragchewing, emcomm and DXing nicely sharing just 5 channels.

The current problem isn't with the regular 60 meter guys who have mostly studied the complex changes. One guy who I've never heard on the band took over Channel 5 calling PSK CQs for hours, apparently to get the band's first digital WAS.  Not only is channel 5 the U.S. calling frequency but it is the DX/calling frequency for most of the many nations authorized to use 60. Tying up that channel with CQs is utterly unacceptable.

There's tons of illegal JT65, often well off center channel. Blame that squarely on the complex rules. The only digital modes authorized are PSK31 and Pactor III, plus CW. But the FCC mode designations are far less than precise.

Murkier are questions about multiple stations sharing a single channel such as USB on 5403.5 and PSK31 or CW center-channel on 5405. It works well with reasonably state-of-the-art equipment and the rules don't seem to prohibit it.

Anyway, last night was much calmer and with most of the PSK gone. Actually pretty dead after 0300z. The guy working on his digital WAS seems to have given up and left.  Hams are once again discussing their health problems. Guys are scouring the rules. 60 will survive. 
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W0BTU
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« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2012, 11:51:39 AM »

... But the FCC mode designations are far less than precise.   Murkier are questions about multiple stations sharing a single channel such as USB on 5403.5 and PSK31 or CW center-channel on  5405.

Part of the problem is that the guidelines for 60 meters are not easy to find. They are scattered all over arrl.org and some pages do not link to each other. I don't understand why they simply don't put all the rules about 60 meters on a single page.

I saw several pages there about 60 meters, with links that were not as obvious as they should be (not to mention conflicting information). For example, at http://www.arrl.org/60-meter-faq, it states the following:

"What modes may I use on 60-meters?
"Effective March 5, 2012 the FCC has permitted CW, USB, and Digital modes on these freqquencies" [sic]

This implies that ANY digital mode is now legal there, and that is not the case.

Here's some helpful info, including a band plan: http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Regulatory/Recommended_Practices_for_60_Meters%20-%20Version%206_4.pdf

Quote
Anyway, last night was much calmer ... Hams are once again discussing their health problems.

And complaining about the new changes. :-)
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K0OD
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« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2012, 12:20:02 PM »

The following isn't much of a roadmap. But the League and probably the FCC don't want to preclude future technological development. Probably fuzzy by design. Again I think it will work out just fine: 

"It is certainly possible to interpret the FCC Report and Order
somewhat broadly as it concerns digital operating on the band,
but be careful not to read too much into the text.

For example, while the Report and Order mentions RTTY, it also
specifies that the signal must be less than 60 Hz wide. This is too
narrow for amateur teletype signals. Only a much narrower mode
such as PSK31 (about 50 Hz wide) meets this requirement.

With an eye to the potential for expanded 60 meter privileges in the
future, the ARRL believes it is critical to cooperate fully with the NTIA.
Therefore, the ARRL asks all amateurs to restrict 60-meter digital
 operations to PSK31 or PACTOR III."

http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Regulatory/Recommended_Practices_for_60_Meters%20-%20Version%206_4.pdf

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K0OD
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« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2012, 03:18:56 PM »

Jeesh, brand new band chart from the League dated March 5, 2012

For 60 it misleadingly says the following can be used: "Only upper sideband suppressed carrier voice transmissions, CW, RTTY and data such as PACTOR III."
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Hambands_color.pdf

The League has said elsewhere that the only allowed "RTTY" is PSK31. Chart uses proper FCC terminology perhaps, but confusing to most hams.
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W0BTU
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« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2012, 03:55:59 PM »

Amazing. That's only one example of what I meant by conflicting information about 60M at arrl.org.

Anyone have a link to the Federal Register or other authority talking about 60 meters? I wish I would have bookmarked it.
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K1DA
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« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2012, 04:56:42 PM »

  If you don't like the parameters on 60 JUST STAY OFF, eh.  It was a great band until the other night.  Where do you morons come from?
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K0OD
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« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2012, 06:00:41 AM »

W0BTU says:
Quote
Amazing. That's only one example of what I meant by conflicting information about 60M at arrl.org.

"Why can't hams just read the rules!"  

Mike, I hear that screamed constantly this week on 60. Few hams will read and understand the actual regulation in the Federal Register and the confusing info spun off from it. Far more will get their info from that chart that shows "RTTY" as an approved mode. Many hams keep that band chart posted on the shack wall, as I do. So that nasty genie is out of the bottle.

ARRL.com says the April QST will discuss the 60 meter changes in detail. But that issue is several weeks off.  
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 08:00:03 AM by K0OD » Logged
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