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Author Topic: JT65-HF noob questions  (Read 16557 times)
WALTERB
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Posts: 528




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« on: April 23, 2012, 08:33:29 AM »

I started using JT65 Yesterday.  I really like it.

Couple of questions. 

If I call CQ and get an answer from a station, then I respond but never get any follow up responses, how long / how many times should I continue to resend to the same station?  I have had this happen a few times. I send the RRR message twice, then send the 73 message.
I don't know if this is normal, or someone just dropped the ball on their end?

Second question.  I have been using 5 and 10 watts.  What is the max wattage I should use/need for long haul DX on 20 meters (assuming normal band conditions)?

Third question,  is there a website that explains all the codes and shorthand used in JT65?

Thanks in advance.
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VE3FMC
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Posts: 985


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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2012, 10:39:45 AM »

One important thing about JT65. Your computer clock needs to be dead on. synchronized with an online Government clock. If you do not have that done then receiving stations is next to impossible.

So if you have not installed software for that you need to do so. I use Dimension 4 which is a free download for syncing my CPU clock.

However sometimes conditions change after someone answers your CQ and you lose them. I have had that happen, mainly on 40 meters.

As for power. I have made contacts with anywhere from 1/2 watt to 20 watts. Rarely need more than 20 watts depending on conditions and your antenna. I worked Australia with 10 watts to a dipole at 30 foot apex on 40 meters and the UK with 10-20 watts on 40 meters.

The mode was meant to use low power. Trying to make contacts with 1 watt is fun!
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WALTERB
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Posts: 528




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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2012, 10:44:23 AM »

One important thing about JT65. Your computer clock needs to be dead on. synchronized with an online Government clock. If you do not have that done then receiving stations is next to impossible.

So if you have not installed software for that you need to do so. I use Dimension 4 which is a free download for syncing my CPU clock.

However sometimes conditions change after someone answers your CQ and you lose them. I have had that happen, mainly on 40 meters.

As for power. I have made contacts with anywhere from 1/2 watt to 20 watts. Rarely need more than 20 watts depending on conditions and your antenna. I worked Australia with 10 watts to a dipole at 30 foot apex on 40 meters and the UK with 10-20 watts on 40 meters.

The mode was meant to use low power. Trying to make contacts with 1 watt is fun!



thanks!

Starting out its hard to know if you are doing or not doing something correct.  Assuming you get to the 73 message, then you are doing something right.  Grin

No matter what mode (digital, SSB, etc) I can't seem to break into the Indian Ocean rim. 

does anybody else have this problem from the United States / Midwest?

thanks
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W0GLB
Member

Posts: 45




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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2012, 01:37:36 PM »

Quote
No matter what mode (digital, SSB, etc) I can't seem to break into the Indian Ocean rim. 

does anybody else have this problem from the United States / Midwest?

What luck I have had has been on in the digital modes on 20m between 1300-1430 UTC.
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WALTERB
Member

Posts: 528




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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2012, 01:55:20 PM »

Quote
No matter what mode (digital, SSB, etc) I can't seem to break into the Indian Ocean rim. 

does anybody else have this problem from the United States / Midwest?

What luck I have had has been on in the digital modes on 20m between 1300-1430 UTC.

QRK?  Grin
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AG6WT
Member

Posts: 443




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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2012, 06:53:53 AM »


Starting out its hard to know if you are doing or not doing something correct.  Assuming you get to the 73 message, then you are doing something right.  Grin

No matter what mode (digital, SSB, etc) I can't seem to break into the Indian Ocean rim. 

does anybody else have this problem from the United States / Midwest?

thanks

Walter,

I haven't had any luck with the Indian Ocean entities albeit work has kept me off the air and I have a very limited antenna system. However, I do have my JT65 software set up to report spots to pskreporter and found that I picked up India a few times when I was away from the shack. You might set up your JT65 software for spotting (I'm using JT65-HF) and let is sit on the JT65 frequencies just listening. Go back and review the spots to see if you hear any desired countries. The times and bands reported will then give you an idea of when you should be at your station to increase your probability of making contacts to those DX stations.

Ray KJ6AMF
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WALTERB
Member

Posts: 528




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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2012, 08:50:57 AM »


Starting out its hard to know if you are doing or not doing something correct.  Assuming you get to the 73 message, then you are doing something right.  Grin

No matter what mode (digital, SSB, etc) I can't seem to break into the Indian Ocean rim. 

does anybody else have this problem from the United States / Midwest?

thanks

thanks.  I made my first Japan contact last night and also terra del fuego which was pretty cool.  But agian, nothing farther than eastern australia.

I'm sure most of it has to do with band conditions.  I'll just keep plugging away.  having fun, thats what counts.

thanks

Walter,

I haven't had any luck with the Indian Ocean entities albeit work has kept me off the air and I have a very limited antenna system. However, I do have my JT65 software set up to report spots to pskreporter and found that I picked up India a few times when I was away from the shack. You might set up your JT65 software for spotting (I'm using JT65-HF) and let is sit on the JT65 frequencies just listening. Go back and review the spots to see if you hear any desired countries. The times and bands reported will then give you an idea of when you should be at your station to increase your probability of making contacts to those DX stations.

Ray KJ6AMF
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KH6DC
Member

Posts: 636




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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2012, 12:39:38 PM »

Aloha and welcome to the world of JT65!  Like other have posted earlier, clock accuracy is extremely important.  I use Dimension 4 by Thninking Man Software on several computers and Microsoft internet clock (clock setting on the bottom task bar) on the desktop that Dim4 doesn't work (must be MS Vista).  All said, if your clock is synchronized with say the navy or NIST clocks, I usually give 3 calls (3 strikes), if no answer I move on or stop transmitting as to not tie up the band.

Yes I am guilty of leaving the transmit on if I'm at work and get pulled away for a meeting, forgetting to either complete the call or stop transmitting thus repeating a message, augh.

Enjoy your new mode!

Good luck and 73,

Delwyn KH6DC
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73 and Aloha,
de Delwyn, KH6DC
WALTERB
Member

Posts: 528




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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2012, 02:20:27 PM »

Aloha and welcome to the world of JT65!  Like other have posted earlier, clock accuracy is extremely important.  I use Dimension 4 by Thninking Man Software on several computers and Microsoft internet clock (clock setting on the bottom task bar) on the desktop that Dim4 doesn't work (must be MS Vista).  All said, if your clock is synchronized with say the navy or NIST clocks, I usually give 3 calls (3 strikes), if no answer I move on or stop transmitting as to not tie up the band.

Yes I am guilty of leaving the transmit on if I'm at work and get pulled away for a meeting, forgetting to either complete the call or stop transmitting thus repeating a message, augh.

Enjoy your new mode!

Good luck and 73,

Delwyn KH6DC

thanks.  an off topic question, does Hawaii have a lot of antenna height restrictions?  Just wondering what you can get away with on Maui and such.

thank
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WA7KPK
Member

Posts: 129




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« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2012, 10:46:26 AM »

HI Walter,

I'm sort of a n00b myself on JT65 but in the last month or so I've confirmed 25 states and about 4 countries according to eQSL. I'd have one more of each if the ham I worked in Hawaii would come through.

And I'm doing all this with 30 watts into a 70' dipole that starts out about 20 feet up and ends up on top of an 8-foot fence, so it's so-so for 40 meters and does a decent but not spectacular job on 15 (worked Japan and Australia from the Seattle area). Can't wait for 10 to open up.

I could probably get away with running 20 watts or less. Every so often instead of the standard "NE1HAM WA7KPK 73" message someone will send something like "10W VERT 73" and I feel like I'm horribly QRO. As far as I know there's no standard for such messages but you can usually guess that VERT = vertical, DPL = dipole, 2EL is a 2 element beam, etc.

30 watts is about the maximum you want to use. If you go higher you start overpowering other people on the waterfall. You also run into technical problems because in essence you're using SSB at a 100% duty cycle, which most rigs aren't designed to do at anywhere near full power. Remember, JT65 is supposed to be a weak signal mode. People work plenty of DX using low power. I've heard Australia and South Africa on 40 meters and they're always making contacts into North America (but never to me so far, darnit).

I think your method for handling dropped signals is just fine. If someone fades out or disappears on me before the RRR message is sent I will try about three times to send their signal report, and if I don't hear them come back I'll send SRI NO CPY 73 and not count it as a QSO in my log.

And finally, I don't know of a website that explains all the codes and such, but you might get a kick and learn a few things from Andy O'Brien's "Complete Bozo's Guide To JT65a". Just google "bozo guide jt65" and download the PDF from the first link that shows up.

Keep an ear open for me. I'm usually on 15 and 40 after about 2200Z.

Cheers, Creede
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WB0FDJ
Member

Posts: 136




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« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2012, 03:33:30 PM »

Walter
Welcome to JT65. I started using this mode a couple of years ago because I am a QRPer and its one mode that really maximizes the possibility of contacts with low power.
First night I tried JT65 I worked asiatic Russia and KH6 at 5 watts. For a QRP op this is heaven! 98% of my contacts have been made at this power level and I've worked every continent. It's not hard to hit stateside stations with 1-2 watts and for fun I've made several contacts running in the 700 milliwatt range. No gain antennas, just a Gap Challenger, pretty tame. If you hang in the 10-20 watt range you'll have no problems making plent of contacts.
Resist the temptation to think that "more is better" with power. I use the WSJT suite on my linux box and have found that the software seriously hiccups (as it's developer warns) with really strong stations in the passband. Theres been discussion on some of the groups about how it's getting more common to see guys send the last transmission "50W VRT 73".
Good luck and 73 WB0FDJ Doc
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N8HM
Member

Posts: 83




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« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2012, 05:22:42 AM »

HI Walter,

I'm sort of a n00b myself on JT65 but in the last month or so I've confirmed 25 states and about 4 countries according to eQSL. I'd have one more of each if the ham I worked in Hawaii would come through.

And I'm doing all this with 30 watts into a 70' dipole that starts out about 20 feet up and ends up on top of an 8-foot fence, so it's so-so for 40 meters and does a decent but not spectacular job on 15 (worked Japan and Australia from the Seattle area). Can't wait for 10 to open up.

I could probably get away with running 20 watts or less. Every so often instead of the standard "NE1HAM WA7KPK 73" message someone will send something like "10W VERT 73" and I feel like I'm horribly QRO. As far as I know there's no standard for such messages but you can usually guess that VERT = vertical, DPL = dipole, 2EL is a 2 element beam, etc.

30 watts is about the maximum you want to use. If you go higher you start overpowering other people on the waterfall. You also run into technical problems because in essence you're using SSB at a 100% duty cycle, which most rigs aren't designed to do at anywhere near full power. Remember, JT65 is supposed to be a weak signal mode. People work plenty of DX using low power. I've heard Australia and South Africa on 40 meters and they're always making contacts into North America (but never to me so far, darnit).

I think your method for handling dropped signals is just fine. If someone fades out or disappears on me before the RRR message is sent I will try about three times to send their signal report, and if I don't hear them come back I'll send SRI NO CPY 73 and not count it as a QSO in my log.

And finally, I don't know of a website that explains all the codes and such, but you might get a kick and learn a few things from Andy O'Brien's "Complete Bozo's Guide To JT65a". Just google "bozo guide jt65" and download the PDF from the first link that shows up.

Keep an ear open for me. I'm usually on 15 and 40 after about 2200Z.

Cheers, Creede

I needed most of the 100 watts I used to work KH6DC last Saturday night. I've had plenty of QSOs that I needed to crank the power up to complete. Of course, my TS-440 is rated for 30 minutes key down at maximum power and I can get 100 watts out with no ALC deflection.

Sure, it's best to limit the power to 30 watts or so, but sometimes you need more. JT65 is a weak signal mode, but weak signal does not mean low power or QRP. You could have a weak signal while pushing a kilowatt.
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VA7CPC
Member

Posts: 2372




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« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2012, 08:46:48 AM »

Last night, I gave a JT65-HF demo to my club in Vancouver BC.   My antenna was a 20m dipole, about 5' off the ground, outside the meeting-room window.   I was running 20 watts.

I didn't manage to make any QSO's -- hardware problems, weak band conditions, and so on.  I _did_ receive CQ's from UA0 (Asiatic Russia) and Japan.

When I checked PSK Reporter, I found that my own signals had been heard in New Zealand !

JT65-HF is a very interesting mode.

         Charles
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WALTERB
Member

Posts: 528




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2012, 08:28:31 PM »

HI Walter,

I'm sort of a n00b myself on JT65 but in the last month or so I've confirmed 25 states and about 4 countries according to eQSL. I'd have one more of each if the ham I worked in Hawaii would come through.

And I'm doing all this with 30 watts into a 70' dipole that starts out about 20 feet up and ends up on top of an 8-foot fence, so it's so-so for 40 meters and does a decent but not spectacular job on 15 (worked Japan and Australia from the Seattle area). Can't wait for 10 to open up.

I could probably get away with running 20 watts or less. Every so often instead of the standard "NE1HAM WA7KPK 73" message someone will send something like "10W VERT 73" and I feel like I'm horribly QRO. As far as I know there's no standard for such messages but you can usually guess that VERT = vertical, DPL = dipole, 2EL is a 2 element beam, etc.

30 watts is about the maximum you want to use. If you go higher you start overpowering other people on the waterfall. You also run into technical problems because in essence you're using SSB at a 100% duty cycle, which most rigs aren't designed to do at anywhere near full power. Remember, JT65 is supposed to be a weak signal mode. People work plenty of DX using low power. I've heard Australia and South Africa on 40 meters and they're always making contacts into North America (but never to me so far, darnit).

I think your method for handling dropped signals is just fine. If someone fades out or disappears on me before the RRR message is sent I will try about three times to send their signal report, and if I don't hear them come back I'll send SRI NO CPY 73 and not count it as a QSO in my log.

And finally, I don't know of a website that explains all the codes and such, but you might get a kick and learn a few things from Andy O'Brien's "Complete Bozo's Guide To JT65a". Just google "bozo guide jt65" and download the PDF from the first link that shows up.

Keep an ear open for me. I'm usually on 15 and 40 after about 2200Z.

Cheers, Creede

thanks!
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KH6DC
Member

Posts: 636




Ignore
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2012, 01:01:25 PM »

Aloha and welcome to the world of JT65!  Like other have posted earlier, clock accuracy is extremely important.  I use Dimension 4 by Thninking Man Software on several computers and Microsoft internet clock (clock setting on the bottom task bar) on the desktop that Dim4 doesn't work (must be MS Vista).  All said, if your clock is synchronized with say the navy or NIST clocks, I usually give 3 calls (3 strikes), if no answer I move on or stop transmitting as to not tie up the band.

Yes I am guilty of leaving the transmit on if I'm at work and get pulled away for a meeting, forgetting to either complete the call or stop transmitting thus repeating a message, augh.

Enjoy your new mode!

Good luck and 73,

Delwyn KH6DC

thanks.  an off topic question, does Hawaii have a lot of antenna height restrictions?  Just wondering what you can get away with on Maui and such.

thank

Aloha Walter,

There are no height restrictions on Maui unless in a HOA/CC&R community or rules at the hotel, timeshare, etc., you're staying at.  Typical height restrictions aside from the CC&Rs for residences are county building permits and FAA if near the airport.

Hope to work you on JT65

Delwyn KH6DC
Logged

73 and Aloha,
de Delwyn, KH6DC
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